“SOAKING”: Biblical OR Mysticism?
“SOAKING” IS SIN. There no such thing as “soaking” in God’s Word as it’s defined today by the witchcraft NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) cult!
For starters, is not coming from God, is not in His Word and is a lazy person’s delusion.
There’s no such thing as “soaking” in the Bible. It’s time to repent, to deny self, to take up the cross and follow Jesus for real and stop trying to get a fix, a feeling, a shortcut.
FLASHPOINT: The LORD told us that He manifests Himself to those who deny self, take up the cross, and walk with Him (Luke 9:23-24; John 14:21-23, etc.). He doesn’t manifest His holy presence to disobedience lazy dupes who sit around “soaking.” Total scam. Run for your life. New age occult practice!
Yes God inhabits the praises of His people and Jesus also tells us that He and the Father specifically manifest Themselves to those who abide, who worship and obey Them – and not those who sit around “soaking” in a presence they claim is from above yet is suspect of being from below (Psalms 22:3; John 14:21-23).
ARE you seeking to experience God OR to KNOW HIM? (John 17:3)
“People want a word from God instead of the Word OF God.” Warren Smith
Lots of disobedient, fruit-less, do-nothing counterfeits “soaking” in demons. They will do and seek after ANY and EVERYTHING except the simple obedience the LORD calls them to. They will do anything except lay down their lives and humbly, practically, daily walk with Jesus – worshiping, loving, and serving Him and others (Matthew 22:37-40; Luke 9:23-24). “IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM” – “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16)
WHAT IS “SOAKING”? “Soaking” is found nowhere in the Bible and is the invention of devils and only participated in by the wicked who have a mere “form of godliness” yet deny the power, the authority of Christ to reign in their daily life… and so are looking for some way to cheat the system, to evade, to deny the cross – the crucified life (2 Timothy 3:1-7; Luke 9:23-24, etc.). The only people who want to “soak” are the unrepentant, disobedient rebels who are not literally obeying God. Jesus and His holy apostles never told anyone to go “soak.” Counterfeits who “soak” seek and believe that God is manifesting His presence to them no different than the yoga cultist who make their little poses, believing that some spirit is going to manifest to them. And, it’s the devil himself manifesting to them and possessing them. Read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. Where’s there’s a refusal of truth, there’s a vacuum and demon spirits invade those rebels. “Soaking” is for disobedient rebels who refuse to engage in a practical, daily, cross relationship with Christ. Therefore they never seek God in sober prayer or do the slightest evangelism. “Soaking” is Satan’s accommodation for the wicked, the “reprobate.” (Titus 1:16)
God doesn’t fill or bestow His divine blessing and anointing on lazy, unrepentant, Christ-denying wicked counterfeits who sit and lay around waiting for Him to do so. Delusional.
Here’s how God manifests His approval and presence upon individual men – “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. … Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:21, 23) And yes, we’re going to drill this passage – these words from the Son of God!
In word or concept “soaking” is found nowhere in Scripture. The LORD Jesus calls those who will be His to lay down their lives in this fleeting world and humbly, simply, quietly serve Him and others (Matthew 20:24-28; 22:37-40; 23:8-12; Philippians 2:3-5, etc.).
The same frauds who participate in this soaking witchcraft do not have the fruit of love in their lives (Galatians 5:22-23). They won’t go next door to ask their neighbor if they need prayer for anything and yet they will travel half way around the world to “soak” with a bunch of delusional flakes.
“Soaking” is many times coupled with the “holy laughter” or “drunk in the spirit” so-called “revivals that we see in apostate churches yet nowhere in God’s Word. But the LORD warns us to:
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” 1 Peter 5:8
Satan is devouring those who do not know and obey God’s Word.
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” Hosea 4:6
Instead of reading God’s Word daily and living it out for themselves, they’ve relegated their eternal souls into the care of devouring wolves (Matthew 7:15). Those who follow this false movement and it’s fraudulent wolves, are enticed to buy into this notion that God’s presence is going to do what they refuse to do, like obey Him. Not.
“Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.” Hosea 10:12
The NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) cult loves to say this: “His presence is changing lives.” Read John 15:1-16 for the biblical truth about a daily, abiding relationship with Christ and the corresponding fruit. When we see people saying God’s presence transforms life it entices the biblically illiterate to simply try to go “soak” and get some magic transformation of their character. This is why those in this false movement have a mere “form of godliness” because they “deny the power” (authority) of God by submitting to His cross and are “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (2 Timothy 3:7) Repentance and the central cross message of the original Gospel is never taught in this heretical system.
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Romans 12:1-2
According to Romans 12:1-2, transformation, change, the production of the fruit of the Spirit requires presenting our bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to the LORD, that is the crucified life, which is never taught among the false prophets of the NAR cult.
“Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God? 15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:” Joel 2:12-15
Acting a fool has no place among true Christians.
Those who refuse to humbly, literally obey God – on his stated terms, will consciously soak in the flames of eternal damnation as hell is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). REPENTANCE AND FRUIT TO PROVE IT IS A MUST (Matthew 3:7-10; Luke 13:3).
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.” Ephesians 4:14-15
The more I look at these things, the more it seems that these people are infiltrating warlocks and witches (Psalms 74).
What is now called “soaking” is the experience whereby people gather to sort of marinate before the LORD. Like the so-called “revivals” of the 1990’s, they will lay and seek to conjure up the presence of God which is an experience foreign to the biblical revelation revealed in the 27 book canon of the New Testament. There were prayer meetings in the NT for specific purposes, but never a soak till we get something meeting (Acts 12). While “soaking” like this they think they are being filled or saturated with the LORD’s presence, yet there are some strange things associated with this type activity as we saw in the false revivals of the recent past. What is now being called “soaking” is simply a repackaging and re-entry of the strange fire experiences we saw in the Toronto and Brownsville “revivals” which did not align with what we see in the Word, so are to be exposed as such.
“Marinating” or “soaking” takes the emphasis off of JESUS and puts in on the deceived dupe which makes it antichrist (in place of Christ). This means that those perpetrating this filthy robbery of the glory of Jesus are antichrists (Colossians 2).
“Why is it that ‘Christians’ keep coming up with things to dramatize Christianity and make it all about them. We have direct access in prayer to God through Jesus. There is absolutely no closer relationship than that soaking does nothing but get you wet. Sad and pathetic.” Paula M.
SOAK THIS!!!!!
It’s high time to repent, come out from among these devils and “soak” our darkened, deceived, apostate hearts and mind in God’s Word and go speak it to the precious lost soul for whom Jesus bled on that cross. We need some serious “washing of water by the word.” (Ephesians 5:25-27) …… Read Ezekiel 3:1-4 …. The LORD told His servant Ezekiel, and is telling you and I, to soak our minds and hearts in His blessed written Word and then GO tell somebody! Anybody ever heard of something called Christ’s GREAT COMMISSION?! It’s pretty simple. What excuse will we have on that Day!? It’s time to get a clue saints, we’ve been hoodwinked! Pass this on if you dare take such a stand … Jesus is coming …. What’s there to lose but eternal souls for whom Christ died and rose again? You don’t think any of the modern wolf “pastors” cares do you? No, they could care less because they are too busy denying Christ while they build their own empire – church business, marketing their communities for more nickels, noses, and numbers. Are you helping them blaspheme Christ? If so, you will receive the same eternal judgment as they do (2 John 7-11).
It’s one gimmick after another, one post card promising to entertain them and their children better than ABC church down the street. They are drawing unsuspecting, undiscerning sheep into their wolf dens that they call “church.”
If we don’t repent, the only soaking we’re going to be doing is when the LORD immerses us in the LAKE of fire! (Revelation 20:11-15)
The following should give some insight into the origins of this experienced-based (not truth-based) movement that we now see. Here is an excerpt taken from an article entitled What is really going on in the church?: http://www.letusreason.org/Pent25.htm
- “It was Benny Hinn who inaugurated Rodney Browne into ministry at one of his meetings in the early 90’s; from there he went to Hagin and then Copeland’s church, then TBN and the rest is history.
Browne says this much chaos must be from the Holy Ghost. This is clearly double-talk. The Holy Ghost of the Bible does not create chaos, He turns chaos into order. Browne describes the spirit he calls holy as a force like electricity running out of his fingers bouncing off and deflecting to others. Is this describing the Holy Ghost of the Scripture or a power that is running amok in their services. He’s got everyone under his spell of laughter thinking that anything that goes on at these meetings even if they are clearly unbiblical is of the Holy Ghost. This is the new order of another spirit and not the Holy Spirit of God. He (Rodney Howard Browne) states : “I’d rather be in a church where the devil and the flesh are manifesting than in a church where nothing is happening because people are too afraid to manifest anything… and if a devil manifests, don’t worry about that either. Rejoice because at least something is happening.” One could write several volumes chronicling the errors in the above statement. A revival of the Spirit does not manifest the flesh. God says clearly that if one walks in the Spirit, that he will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. (Gal. 5:1 6). These are contrary to each other. The works of the flesh will never compliment the workings of the Spirit. If the devil and the flesh are manifesting in a meeting, I would hope that it was an exorcism and the devil would be leaving rather than staying and participating! Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, not to put him on display.”
Did you catch this? Rodney Howard Browne states: “I’d rather be in a church where the devil and the flesh are manifesting than in a church where nothing is happening because people are too afraid to manifest anything… and if a devil manifests, don’t worry about that either. Rejoice because at least something is happening.” Is there any doubt that Browne here invited and brought in demons to the body of Christ? Woe to those gatekeepers (shepherds, pastors) who allowed this abomination and used the name of the LORD in vain by attaching His holy name to this wickedness!
Is there any remotely similar experience seen in Holy Scripture as today’s new “soaking” movement and experience? Or, is this yet another fad movement spawned from so-called “revivals” of the not-too-distant past? Is this “soaking” phenomenon another of the latest “winds of doctrine” blowing through the modern church world? Should such be weighed in the balance against Holy Scripture to see if it is of God OR just blindly received?
“The simple (naïve; undiscerning) believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” Proverbs 14:15
“Prove (test) all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1
In God’s economy, being gullible is a curse and not a virtue. Being a nice little, easy-going and agreeable Christian is not the goal of Christ for His disciples and is completely inconsistent with the lives of the apostles and early church.
It is incumbent upon the last day saints of the LORD to look very closely at new fad experiences and doctrines blowing through the church world, especially in light of the predecessor “revivals” of the 1990’s, where men and women rolled around on the floor barking and roaring like animals. For this writer such activities are not hearsay – I was there. These “revivals” we know bore not the fruit of a true biblical revival.
How naïve shall we be? Shall we again buy into that which has no connection to biblical Christianity?
The following 3 points on Gnosticism are taken from http://www.crossroad.to/Q&A/church/postmodern/soaking.htm
And yes, incorporates three key tenets of Gnosticism:
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- 1. Faith and knowledge based primarily on personal or mystical experience rather than the Word.
- 2. Emphasis on self-knowledge and emotional well-being or healing, rather than biblical knowledge of God and His freedom through the cross and cleansing through His blood (already accomplished).
- 3. Illogical and feeling-based interpretations of His Word.
George Parker writes:
“I have witnessed two prayer soaks, and each time my spiritual antenna began to blink. I believe that all it is, is a form of New Age mysticism, that has come about by the New Age gospel that has infiltrated the body of Christ since Eugene Peterson’s perverted and watered down version of God’s inspired Word, which is nothing more than a New Age perversion. And Rick Warren’s New Age gospel of having a purpose-driven life.”
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” Isaiah 14:12-15
Self-exaltation forever severed Satan from the Almighty. This movement seems to follow the pomp philosophy of Lucifer while cloaking itself as a Christian experience, yet with no biblical grounds.
At the heart of the divine economy is the worship of God and elevating of others above self (Matt. 22:37-39).
To show just how widespread this “soaking” phenomenon is becoming, here below is an excerpt from John Arnott, pastor of the Airport Vineyard in Toronto where the laughing revival started in the 1990’s. During this “Toronto Blessing” movement, people roared and did many strange animalistic things under the circus leaders of this movement who had no Scripture to justify such weird and unusual, unnatural manifestations.
“Soaking” is not Scriptural and it’s Pure Selfishness
“Overcome in Your presence” and language like this flood the music and messages of the modern church world. And, so, we have a generation of “prophetic” counterfeits who are waiting around for God to do something. He won’t because they ask “amiss” or with the wrong motive, while in disobedience to what He already stated in His Word, the “MORE sure word of prophecy.” (2 Peter 1:16-21)
“Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.” James 4:2-3
“He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law (Word; instructions), even his prayer shall be abomination.” Proverbs 28:9
“Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” James 2:18
Jesus tells us how God works and it’s on record in John 14:21, 23. He and the Father abide with and manifest themselves to those who obey Him… not those who have a mere form of godliness as they seek the LORD to come upon them in a special way while they are not obeying Him. Counterfeits.
“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him … 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:21,23
Only those who follow Christ’s teachings prove that they know and follow Christ and it’s to these true disciples that God makes Himself manifest (Matthew 7:21; John 8:47, etc.).
John Arnott:
“Let’s get back to supernatural church” by John Arnott
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- · “…we hear the term, ‘church without walls’ but what does this mean? While it can mean sending teams from a local church outside the church’s walls to minister in homes and in the marketplace, I believe it is much more than that. If we are going to reach this world for Jesus, we need a completely new model of doing church …
- · “I believe the vision God gave us here in Toronto for Soaking Prayer Centers all over the world is a great response to the Great Commission. In just over one year, we have had over 4,000 people order our ‘Soaking Kit‘ and begin a small group of ‘called out ones’ in their homes….
- · “Why the interest? Because it is a quick, simple way to get involved into the supernatural ministry of Jesus and start helping people receive healing, deliverance and freedom, to come into the joy of the Lord and be filled with the Spirit. The Soaking Kit includes all the basic information you need to start your own ‘soaking center’ in your home or business.”
Much could be said about these words of Mr. Arnott. Notice these words from Arnott concerning “soaking”: “Because it is a quick, simple way to get involved into the supernatural ministry of Jesus and start helping people receive healing, deliverance and freedom, to come into the joy of the Lord and be filled with the Spirit.” Sound smooth? Sound biblical? Since when is walking with Christ and doing ministry “quick”? Is there a “quick, simple way to get involved into the supernatural ministry”? Is “soaking” a “supernatural ministry” of the Holy Spirit or “another spirit”? (2 Cor. 11:4) This is the false premise for this whole “soaking” movement – a “quick, simple way” to get around a true walk with God which requires Jesus increasing and we decreasing – the crucifixion of the fleshly nature with fastings, prayer, repentance and obedience (2 Chronicles 7:14).
In Psalm 51 we see a divine sequence: first purging, then filling, and then ministry. Real ministry is not a “quick” fix, but rather a relationally-based preparation that requires that the believer humble himself under the mighty hand of God for purging and cleansing that he might be “a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.”
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.” 2 Timothy 2:19-21
Tell-Tale Fruit
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22-23
From personal experience in this 1990s “blessing” movement (and study of it), this writer has concluded that there was very little fruit of the Holy Spirit produced in those supposed “revivals.” The fruit of the supposed “revivals” of the 1990’s was not “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness…” If such is true, do we conclude that it was a blessing or a curse? When God really moves (revival), there will be deep repentance, total trust, praise, Holy Ghost filling, water baptism, doctrinal purity, and a deep hunger for the Word! Read Acts.
“God is love” and those who truly know Him serve Him according to His Word which includes lifting up others above self (rather than self-seeking). See 1 John.
Where is the love? Are these revivals producing true Christian, Christ-like love, where people lay down their lives for their LORD and the brethren? This “soaking” phenomenon is to be weighed no differently than when we are in our local gatherings and sing, clap, dance and shout to the LORD in praise and yet never reach out with Christian love to commune with and bless the brethren of the LORD. Such deficiency of Christ-like love clearly reveals an empty outward religious exercise void of the true substance of worship. In the 1990s and today, the same people who lay on the floor for hours “soaking” seem to get up without exhibiting greater fruit or evidence of the Holy Ghost. Where is the love that is always characterized by loving one’s neighbor? No, instead it seems to be just another selfish experience where people come to get blessed instead of being one, just like the rich woman who lives to be pampered by others giving her massages, pedicures and facials. Those involved in these fad modern church and self-seeking “revivals” still seem to lack the love, real joy, and peace always consistent with the work of the Spirit of God. Such fruit will only come to those who sincerely worship from the depths of their hearts and are doers of the Word and not those who are sitting around doing little or nothing and waiting to be further pampered and fattened by “soaking”.
Do you really want to know how to judge or test this movement or any movement for its authenticity or lack thereof? Jesus commanded: “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” (Mark 16:15) The LORD also said “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.” Matthew 4:19 The book of Proverbs says “He that winneth souls is wise.” (Prov. 11:30) True revival brings repentance and preaching of the Good News – the Gospel – from all truly touched by the LORD. Any other fruit other than that shown in Holy Scripture reveals that a so-called move of God is not biblical, and points to deception and not true revival. Read these following words of Jesus carefully:
“As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.” John 15:9-17
Obedience to the LORD Jesus and His Word in the laying down of one’s life and preferring others above oneself is the fruit of true revival. Anything short of this clearly reveals a false revival.
Who truly loves Jesus? Want to let Jesus answer this question?
“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him…Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:21, 23
According to Jesus, those who follow and obey Him are blessed with His presence. The presence of the LORD is in and with those who are following Him and therefore in motion expanding His kingdom – doing His bidding, not their own (self-seeking).
Cindy Rose Hatfield writes: “(John 16:23-24 KJV ). These verses and others clearly portray prayer as being comprehensible communication with God, not an esoteric, mystical meditation…Nor soaking in music or anything ..It is all in the Word and nowhere is it found to do the above as described…Amen.”
“Charity…Seeketh not Her Own”
“Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth…” 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Doers or Deceivers?
“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” James 1:22
Abiding in His Love:
“As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” John 15:9-14
The LORD is looking for those who will abide in relationship with Him and obey His Word from a sincere heart of worship. Beloved, bringing your pillow to church to lay on the floor and “soak” is a farce and a fable at best. This is not what the church needs – more coddling while doing little or nothing to obey Jesus. The true church is being called to fasting, prayer, seeking His holy face and obedience to the Word of God and not to be further pampered and fattened, and deluded with more strange fire experiences brought into the church world by the promised false prophets of the last hour (Matt. 24:4-4,11,24; 1 Tim. 4:1-6; 2 Tim. 3:7; 2 Pet. 2-2; Jude 3-4, etc.).
Remember what Christ told us about the believers at Laodicea?
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.” Revelation 3:14-17
Does the already overfed, overweight, do-nothing western world church need even more spoiling? This may sound harsh on the surface, yet I think the question has merit, all things given. Do you?
Have you noticed the pleasure-seeking craze and emphasis of the last few years which is usually cloaked behind some spiritual veneer? Paralleled with the advent of the day spa explosion across the western world, the indulgence and excess of those in the church world has come of age as foretold by the apostles of our LORD – “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud…heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (2 Tim. 3:1-7)
It seems that today people will do anything but what Jesus told us to do and find “biblical” justification for it. But God sees the heart motives and intents of men and will bring these things to the light on that Great and Terrible Day of Judgment.
Concerning soaking, George Parker wrote us and says:
“… prayer soaking and they use all sorts of Scriptures, but I believe that all they are doing is what writers call ‘proof texting’, using Scripture to back up unproven truth. Now if ‘Prayer Soaking’ is Scriptural, then how come it has take over a thousand years to become a force?”
How do you think the people of the world who do not know the LORD view those in the church world who are engrossed in seeking continual self-indulgence, treatment and excess?
The question must be asked: Why would the LORD further pamper people who are not being obedient and fruitful in His harvest as it is? Are we not a bunch of spiritual weaklings?
“If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?” Jeremiah 12:5
While some misled Americans, claiming to be serving the LORD, seek to further pamper their poor little hurting buttocks (due to sitting too much), a large number of true believers in Christ across the world live in danger of martyrdom every day for their faith.
“GO YE”
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” Mark 16:15
“Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.” Acts 8:4
Don’t stand around soaking, “go and tell others” is the message of the New Testament.
Those who are authentically touched by the LORD are to be His ambassadors to advance His eternal coming kingdom and not be preoccupied with pampering themselves. The Gospel is moving and those who possess and are possessed by it are “on the go.” Those moved by the LORD from Heaven do exploits among the lost people of their world and the LORD gives His presence to bless and empower them. They don’t congregate to “soak” in more self-seeking, self-indulgent, and self-serving experiences.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. …And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.” Mark 16:15, 17-20
The LORD who alone saves, has called all who believe to “Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel.” Because they are “on the go” in obedience to Him, the LORD says here that He will be “confirming the word with signs following.” Jesus is not going to confirm or bless laziness and self-indulgence with His presence or “signs.”
2 Thessalonians 2 says there are “LYING signs and wonders” also just as the two magicians who challenged Moses. And yet there is the authentic which is also coinciding with the root and fruit of those preaching the pure, original Gospel – fruit / doctrine. Read Mark Martin16:15-20 and note that Jesus confirmed the preached WORD with signs and wonders which is telling. He doesn’t confirm foolishness and witchcraft and rolling on the ground, etc., but rather the declaration of His Word.
“I Told You”
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.” Matthew 24:24-25
While we pamper ourselves even more, we further lessen our chances of overcoming when the coming persecution hits within our borders. We have seen nothing yet. God help us in this hour to fast, pray and be broken while the light is still with us. Jesus warned “Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you.” (John 12:35)
Trevor Gamble notes: “This reminds me suddenly of a Christian friend I knew living locally here to me who when I challenged her on believing this kind of stuff unfriended me. She had been trying to talk me into going to Holy Ghost parties. Where she said all roll around laughing hysterically and so much so no one can praise God. I asked her why God should want to stop people praising Him? She tried to claim it was all of God and said some there had experienced seeing gold teeth materializing into the mouths of people. I said God does not go around putting gold teeth in the mouths of believers. Nowhere in scripture does this happen.”
The persecutions that lie just ahead in this nation will be devastating to those who aren’t being prepared in this hour by exercising the Word – doing it. These who have bought into this latest of “strange fire” experiences, are being further blinded and deluded (Leviticus 10:1-2).
“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” Revelation 3:5-6
“They Have Cast Fire into Thy Sanctuary”
“Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt. Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary. Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs…They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.” Psalms 74:2-4,7
Leviticus 10 issues forth the severe warning against false prophets who bring “strange fire”among the people of God. The false prophets came under divine judgment and were killed.
“And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified.” Leviticus 10:1-3
In my estimation, this “soaking” movement/experience is yet another ridiculous scheme of the enemy to further embalm God’s people and keep them in bondage to self-serving experiences instead of the true worship of the LORD which leads one to love God supremely, deny self, take up the cross, and elevate others above self in truly following Christ. The sad thing is that so many today who are empty after walking through several supposed “revivals,” still go on blindly into yet another fad movement which has literally no biblical reconciliation. This movement will again leave them empty and vulnerable to the next delusion.
Think about it: Isn’t it easier to “soak” than to serve? Isn’t laying around doing “floor time” (their wording) the easy way out? Are these people not being led to follow the line of least resistance by vainly believing one is marinating in the presence of God while “soaking”? Is this in lieu of doing what the LORD told us to do in His Word?
How naïve shall we continue to be? How long will we be led around with the enemy’s hand by the nose and think we are being led by the Holy Spirit? How long shall we take the LORD’s name in vain by labeling false movements like this as from Him? How long shall we refuse to judge and test everything against the Word? How long shall we be “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive”? (Eph. 4:14)
Did the LORD ever instruct anyone in Scripture to marinate or “soak”? Or, did He instruct His people to mortify the selfish desires of the sinful nature? See Romans 6. Has the Almighty changed?
“For I am the LORD, I change not.” Malachi 3:6
What is the unchanging LORD looking for? Can we allow God to answer this one for Himself?
“But to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” Isaiah 66:2
“Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.” 1 Samuel 15:22-23
Whether they realize it or not, those who participate in this strange fire soaking movement are rejecting the Word of God and rebelling. If He didn’t tell us to do such in His Word, we are rejecting Him and His Word to do such.
Isn’t this “soaking” experience just another opportunity for western “Christians” to find another excuse not to deny self, take up the cross and truly follow Christ by doing the real work of the Gospel? Is this just another great escape from true repentance of life and brokenness before the LORD?
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13:1-3
todd tomasella
www.SafeGuardYourSoul.com
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“AMEN!!!!!!! I truly believe some have become part of this either through lack of spiritual discernment … no knowledge of God’s Word … they don’t understand the spirits behind it. They are all too ready to simply follow after wicked men … and women … They come in innocence … some as new babes in Christ~~they are preyed upon by these power hungry, manipulative … greedy controlling “preachers” feeding them doctrines of demons … It is spiritual rape! Woe unto them!” Bonnie H.
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY – False spirits invade the church – KUNDALINI WARNING – Andrew Strom
SOAKING? A Spiritual Discipline or Eastern Mysticism?
http://www.crossroad.to/Q&A/church/postmodern/soaking.htm
The Toronto Blessing and the Laughing Revival By Gary E. Gilley ~http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/more/bless.htm
SOAKING? A spiritual discipline or Eastern mysticism?
http://www.crossroad.to/Q&A/church/postmodern/soaking.htm
Hi Todd,
I live in Australia and I have become concerned for the movement that seems to have appeared out of nowhere.
I’ve read a lot on the web about prayer soaking and they use all sorts of Scriptures, but I believe that all they are doing is what writers call “proof texting”, using Scripture to back up to unproven truth.
Now if “Prayer Soaking” is Scriptural, then how come it has take over a thousand years to become a force?
I have witnessed two prayer soaks, and each time my spiritual antenna began to blink.
I believe that all it is, is a form of New Age mysticism, that has come about by the New Age gospel that has infiltrated the Body of Christ since Eugene Peterson’s perverted and watered down version of God’s inspired Word, which is nothing more than a New Age perversion. And Rick Warren’s New Age gospel of having a purpose-driven life.
I am concerned that all of this stuff has come into being since September 11, and the New Age meeting that some Christian leaders attended that was led by the leader of the New Age movement in America.
Now, what have you that might endorse this Prayer Soaking movement? I have an open mind, but I am concerned that these people who lie around on chairs and floors of a church, are opening themselves up to the enemy. I believe it becomes a self-hypnosis.
What do you think?
Love in Christ
George Parker
Australia
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What Did Paul mean by “Double Honour”? [podcast]
“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” 1 Timothy 5:17-18
“Double honour” is generous but not lavish. “Double honour” limits the income of “the elders that rule well.” This would be in contrast to the many pastors today who make themselves rich in this world, as they “make merchandise” of their prey, the people they lead (2 Peter 2:1-3).
Do we not realize that “double honour” actually prevents making merchandise of God’s people by making millionaires our of con men? You are not wiser than God, sinner. You don’t decide what His Word says. It’s best to shut up in humility and simply render humble obedience on this topic, doctrine, and all others.
“Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice …” 1 Samuel 15:22
Tithing is not taught in the New Testament. Giving is to be done out of worship, gratitude, and the honor of the LORD. Christ’s New Testament disciples are to give out of a “cheerful” heart (2 Corinthians 9:7). Here is what the apostle Paul wrote about our giving under the New Covenant:
“But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. ” 2 Corinthians 9:6-11
It’s actually sickening to see how some, out of their own darkened and corrupted hearts, want to starve out the God-called elders from carrying out their divinely ordained duties to feed and equip the flock and to watch for their souls.
Some people are so deep in darkness and therefore blinded that they don’t realize that the work that they do in this world to earn money is not even important compared to the paramount divine work of an elder that God has prepared, sent forth, and diligently feeding His blood-bought flock.
“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. … 16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. 17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” Hebrews 13:7, 16-17
1 Timothy 5:17-18 is specifically of those called-by-God elders “who labour in the word and doctrine.”
“Double honour” here is twice the average earning in the specific economy and time. This apparently is so that they have no financial worries and can concentrate on the most important work in the earth, the kingdom of Christ—feed His flock (John 21:15-17; 1 Peter 5:1-6, etc.). “The elders that rule well” are those who are to be given “double honour” and not the greed-driven enterprising salesmen …..
Of “double honour” one source notes the following (1 Timothy 5:17-18):
“In 1 Timothy 5:17, the “double honor” refers to giving financial support, respect, and esteem to elders who lead the church well and especially to those who work hard at preaching and teaching. This concept is rooted in the Old Testament principle that a laboring ox should not be muzzled, and a worker deserves their wages, highlighting the importance of caring for those who labor in ministry.”
What kind of men does the LORD look for to servant lead?
“Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:” Exodus 18:21
Paul’s refusal to covet what is not his own, in no way negates the compensation God has ordained for those who labor in His Word and doctrine to feed His sheep (1 Corinthians 9). There is no contradiction. Paul’s refusal to receive of the Corinthians doesn’t mean he didn’t receive from others. Take a look:
“And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.” 2 Corinthians 11:9
The above verse, revelation proves the argument wrong that suggests that ministers of the Gospel of Christ should reject receiving any giving to do His work.
The fact that “double honour” is appropriate to the elders described in 1 Timothy 5:17-18 is in NO way means this “double honor” compensation should be demanded. No. Yet God has stated such and in my opinion, from this passage and 1 Corinthians 9 and the Levites of the Old Testament, He says it should be a sufficient portion, a sufficient, a generous compensation that is supplied to “the elders that rule well.” Perhaps He stated double honor in order to be a measure of what is not enough and what is too much and so the elders defined here do not have to feel guilty. Also, is it not conducive to peace in one’s calling to know his bills are paid? As in no muzzling, no starving out the elder ox who treads out the corn of God’s Word, who works to feed the flock of God.
“Double honor – Διπλης τιμης. Almost every critic of note allows that τιμη here signifies reward, stipend, wages. Let him have a double or a larger salary who rules well; and why? Because in the discharge of his office he must be at expense, in proportion to his diligence, in visiting and relieving the sick, in lodging and providing for strangers; in a word, in his being given to hospitality, which was required of every bishop or presbyter.” Adam Clarke
“[Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine] Ruling elders, especially preaching and teaching elders are to receive double honor or wages (1Ti_5:17-18; 1Co_9:6-14; Gal_6:6; Heb_7:1-10). See note, Act_14:23.” Dake
“Let him that is taught in the word communicate (give) unto him that teacheth in all good things.” Galatians 6:6
The Greek word for “communicate” here is:
“koinōneō
koy-no-neh’-o
From G2844; to share with others (objectively or subjectively): – communicate, distribute, be partaker.”
We are privileged to supply those who feed us, to fund those who feed us God’s Word. Such men perform the most important and only eternal work in our lives in this world as we look for the soon return of our LORD.
Is “double honour” also not a demarkation…. where those who would dare exceed double honour to make themselves rich in this world are known as those who are making merchandise of the people? See 2 Peter 2:1-3. What the self-righteous who attempt to change “double honour” into something other than what it is don’t understand, is that “double honour” is a parameter that actually keeps men from making merchandise of the people, making themselves millionaires at the expense of, while exploiting the people. God is all wise….
John Wesley notes:
“Let the elders that rule well – Who approve themselves faithful stewards of all that is committed to their charge. Be counted worthy of double honour – A more abundant provision, seeing that such will employ it all to the glory of God. As it was the most laborious and disinterested men who were put into these offices, so whatever any one had to bestow, in his life or death, was generally lodged in their hands for the poor.”
It’s quite amazing how some expect the men who are prepared, called out by God to do the infinitely most important work in the earth are to do it for free. The origins of this lie which directly contradicts God’s Word, is “another spirit,” Satan—who wars against the LORD and His servants.
It seems that perhaps some become disillusioned when they realize they’ve been deceived by wolves in sheep’s clothing. Then they don’t give at all and yet the Word instructs us to give and to specifically give to the ministries that feed us the pure Word (Galatians 6:6; 1 Timothy 5:17-18).
The lost will never supply, support God’s work. And that’s because they are not of God and that the LORD has left that opportunity for His own people – to lay up treasure in glory which He instructed us to do (Matthew 6:19-21).
God’s people are divinely called and are to be allowed and granted the blessed opportunity to give to HIS work—not forcefully coerced but given opportunity (2 Corinthians 9:7). This is clear in Scripture. When we give, we thereby learn to trust Him who replenishes our supply as He so often promised to do (Proverbs 3:9-10; 2 Corinthians 9:6-11, etc.). It would be wrong to disallow God’s people from giving actually. Moses did not stop God’s people from giving until there was so much given by God’s people that there was nowhere else to contain it! He had to tell them to stop bringing their things to the work of the LORD because they had nowhere else to store it—there was too much of it (Exodus 35). To tell people not to give to God’s work(ers) would mean he forbade them from doing what the LORD told His people to do from the beginning—give. The Levites were one of the twelve tribes of Israel set forth to continually worship and serve the LORD and His people, and Paul, Christ’s apostle, draws from this very truth/fact in 1 Corinthians 9 below.
God provides, yes, and His stated desire to supply, at least in part, is through His body—and that is so that they partake of the blessings both now and eternally (Galatians 6:6; 1 Corinthians 9:1-14; 1 Timothy 5:17-18). A proper and more thorough view of God’s kingdom reveals that to shut off the opportunity of giving and forbid His children from giving, stifles blessings.
When your reaction to evil produces more evil (causes you to trample on the clear contents of God’s Word, to pervert it), you know you fit what Paul calls men of corrupt minds (1 Timothy 6). While over reacting you perfect what Satan and his wolves perverted, you also are guilty of teaching against the LORD you falsely claim to serve and thereby bear false witness against the Almighty. “Let God be true and every man a liar” (Romans 3:4). You have joined the ranks of those you condemn in that you too have “limited the holy one of Israel” while denying His truth, as you pretend to defend the faith (Psalms 78:41).
“For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 2:17
“Jeremiah 3:15: ‘And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you knowledge and understanding.’ These are pastors who live according to God’s word and understand the very heart of God, which is His Word (Psalm 33:11). We have very few of these in this late hour! Most are too consumed with self.” Karen Cochran
Your ill-advised inner embattlement that consumes you doesn’t change the very Word of God. You have over reacted and dismissed the very Word of the God you claim to serve. This puts you in the same camp as those you condemn. Isn’t it time for you to step back and get into the place of repentance before a holy God? That way you will cease perverting the right ways, the Word of God – trampling its contents out of the imbalance.
“Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. 13 Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.” Hosea 10:12-13
“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” Proverbs 18:13
Tithing? No. Levitical Priesthood Pattern brought into light by the apostle Paul? Yes.
It seems some are basing things on the wolves’ exploitation of the people and putting their weight there more than on the Scriptures which are clear concerning the compensation of certain elders, such as in 1 Corinthians 9 and 1 Timothy 5:17-18, etc. The Levites also. No the New Testament doesn’t teach tithing. No I am not trying to get anyone’s money, yet this ministry outreach accepts any cheerful giving from Christ’s saints…. which helps allow many to be reached with God’s Word.
Some novices on this thread seem to be making presumptuous conclusions of those who simply seek to stand on top of the whole counsel of Scripture on this topic. We must never abandon truth, God’s doctrine, due to others abusing it. Never abandon to abuse as it’s been put. We never throw out any part of the Word due to the abuse of it by others (Psalms 119:104, 128; 2 Corinthians 2:17).
A common misapplication of Scripture happens when people say “Freely ye have RECEIVED, freely GIVE.” (Matthew 10:8)
Watch closely what they quote – “Freely ye have RECEIVED, freely GIVE.” (Matthew 10:8) How are the men, the elders whom GOD has prepared and called out to serve HIM going to “GIVE” unless they are receiving? Some are misusing this verse. In the context of Matthew 10, the apostles had RECEIVED the Word, the Gospel from Christ and therefore were to GIVE it to others freely. That’s what ministry is and this is spoken in context of Jesus sending forth His disciples to minister. This in no way negates that God’s people are to be givers as they obey His command to lay up treasure in Heaven, to work so they “have to give”, but supporting His work – the going forth of His Word to feed, nourish, and equip Christ’s saints (Matthew 6:19-21; Ephesians 4:28). “How dwelleth the love of God in” those who don’t give? And where else to give but to poor Christians and the elders and work of Christ?
“But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?” 1 John 3:17
Are God’s people not instructed to fund those who feed them God’s Word? Yes. (Galatians 6:6)
How nonsensical for God to send forth men to be used of Him without the plan in place to provide for them. (1 Corinthians 9:1-14)
How nonsensical for the LORD to instruct His saints to give, to lay up treasure in Heaven and not waste it on earth, without the plan in place for where they are to give? (Matthew 6:19-21)
Some make the common novice mistake of concluding that God’s Word should be disobeyed, His true elders should not be funded but rather starved out, all because his enemy, Satan, has used false prophets to make merchandise of many (2 Peter 2:1-3).
What Does the Bible Say about the Compensation of Christ’s True Ministers? Is this topic addressed in God’s Word? If so, what does it say?
Compensation for true ministers is the stated ordained will of God (1 Timothy 5:17-18; 1 Corinthians 9:1-14)… problem is not pay but rather the hirelings who are getting paid…. to mislead!
“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” – 1 Timothy 5:17-18
Reading these 2 verses together makes it clear that “double honour” includes financial compensation. Otherwise the command of v. 18 is being violated—when called out elders are labouring in the Word and doctrine are being muzzled. Seems this could not be more clearly stated than the Holy Ghost through Paul penned it.
“Double honour” is to be given to divinely called-out elders “especially they who labour in the word and doctrine” (1 Timothy 5:17-18).
“Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.” – 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 KJV
Recently one man attempted to reduce “double honour” to mere respect until shown the never verse, verse 18. He blocked me instead of amending his ways to believe the contents, the Word of Holy Writ.
“Double Honour”
“And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” Luke 10:7
What does the Bible tell us concerning those who minister the Gospel?
“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour (sufficient of generous financial reward), especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” 1 Timothy 5:17-18
“Double honour” specifically means twice the average pay of the present economy. In general that means that God wants those He calls out into ministry to be well taken care of. And, that’s the responsibility of those who are fed by that ministry.
“Elders (5:17-25) 5:17 The rest of this chapter deals with elders. First of all, Paul lays down the rule that elders who rule well should be counted worthy of double honor. Rule might be translated ‘take the lead.’ It is not a question of control, but of example, such elders are worthy of double honor. Honor might mean respect, but it also includes the idea of financial reimbursement (Matt. 15:6). Double honor includes both ideas. First of all, he is worthy of respect from God’s people because of his work, but also, if his time is devoted to this work fully, he is also worthy of financial help. Those who labor in the word and doctrine are probably the ones who spend so much time in preaching and teaching that they are not able to carry on regular employment.
5:18 Two scriptures are introduced here to prove the statement that the elder is worthy of recompense. The first is Deuteronomy 25:4, and the second is taken from Luke 10:7. … These scriptures teach that an ox which is used in the harvesting process should not be deprived of a share of the grain. Also, a laborer is entitled to a portion of the fruit of his labor. So it is with elders. In spite of the fact that their work not be be physical, yet they are worthy of the support of God’s people.” William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, pp. 2096-297
Let’s address a very important, core issue: Do you believe that you are worthy of the money you are paid to do the work you do for a living? Do you believe in your heart, that those who do the work of the ministry are worthy to receive financial blessings from doing this all-important work? If you don’t, may I suggest that there may be a poverty curse on your life that needs to be broken (Deuteronomy 26,28). At the very least, there could be a lack of what the LORD has stated about this.
Many of the servants of the LORD are suffering at the hands of those who have the opportunity to give to the work of the ministry and haven’t. Beloved, let’s turn things around for those who bring us the Word and do the most important work in the earth.
When we truly begin to aggrandize divine truth, we will then begin supporting only those who truly preach all of it (full-counsel) fearlessly and cease from funding the ministries of false prophets who allow most of their ministry revenues to be absorbed on things other than that which is at the core of importance in the divine economy, like the true building up of the saints – getting them into the Word for themselves, and winning lost souls.
Concerning the work and workers of God’s kingdom, the Bible instructs us in Ezra 6:8 – “forthwith expenses be given unto these men, that they be not hindered” – that is, that God’s Gospel laborers be not hindered in carrying out His work.
The reason all of God’s people are to give to His authentic work is “that they (Christ’s workers) be not hindered” (Ezra 6:8).
It’s quite alarming how some have a death grip on their earthly riches and so come running to defend their refusal to give to the LORD, to HIS work.
“All things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.” 1 Chronicles 29:14
May our LORD bless each of us to be cultivated in a heart filled with sincere and true worship and thanksgiving to Him.
“Freely ye have received, freely give.” Matthew 10:8
We should understand that we have freely received the salvation of our God in Christ and that those who don’t give out of the mercy, forgiveness, love, supply that He has given us, are not in God’s will. Out of what God gives us we give out and this clearly proves we have given ourselves to the LORD. We are not still serving the false god of self and therefore mammon (Matthew 6:19-24). When Jesus spoke of giving and it will given back to us, He’s speaking of all these things and not just giving out of the monies God has prospered us with (Luke 6:38).
These darkened souls seem to attempt to reduce giving to merely giving out the Gospel that we received. The Bible says there’s much more to the stewardship of the LORD’s resources (Matthew 25).
RECEIVING and GIVING in God’s Word expands far being saved and giving others the Word.
Every disciple is to give his life to the LORD as Jesus came and gave His life freely to saved us (Luke 14:33; 17:33; 19:27; John 12:23-25, etc.). BUT first that life, eternal life, is to RECEIVE from Christ and we give it back to Him.
There is no giving until we have received of the hand of God.
“ALL THINGS COME of THEE and of thine own have we given thee.” 1 Chronicles 29:14
Have we really given our lives to Christ who gave all if we don’t have a giving heart and hand?
There are seriously some people who HATE giving. They blame their refusal to be generous givers on the many false prophets who have made merchandise of them and many others. Also, they are greed driven hoarders who don’t want anyone suggesting that they should be cheerful, generous givers.
“Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.” 1 Timothy 6:17-19
Read that passage again and note that there is no “foundation against the time to come (eternal judgment),” no laying “hold on eternal life” if one doesn’t have saving faith, whereby he would otherwise be a giver. And everyone has something to give—just as the widow with the 2 mites (Mark 12:41-44). She gave all she had and Jesus honored it and yet did not honor those who gave a token tip, small percentages of what they possessed.
Every saint is to give of his substance, as he has received of God, so he is to give with a cheerful heart (Matthew 10:8; 2 Corinthians 9:6-11; Ephesians 4:28, etc.).
It seems that the hoarding covetous, greed driven among us are possessed with deep hatred at the idea of giving. Their earthly gold is their god and they have rejected Christ (Matthew 6:21-24; Philippians 3:18-19). They have a deep and dark issue. Luke 12 and 16.
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.” Ephesians 5:5
“(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)” Philippians 3:18-19
The following scathing rebuke was sent to a woman who denies that God has a plan in place to compensate the men, the elders He has prepared and called out to “labour in the word and doctrine.”
“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” 1 Timothy 5:17-18
You have no biblical clue on this topic. It’s obvious from such a false statement.
Have you ever read, studied 1 Corinthians 9?
You’ve placed your personal issues above the Word of God which He has magnified above His own holy name and are in need of repentance (Psalms 138:2).
Were the Levites compensated? Yes.
So you like that the men who are prepared and ordained and sent out by God, to do the infinitely most important and only eternal work in the earth starve, and their families as well? Repent now.
Not one thing they state in arguing against Christ’s ministers being compensated undoes, negates the following Bible truth, facts:
1 Corinthians 9
Paul Surrenders His Rights
1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Many are biblically illiterate on this topic and yet argue in their ignorance (Proverbs 18:13). Note that they will say things like:
“Paul worked and said for them to follow his example. We are NOT in the Old Testament.”
Paul specifically refers in the New Testament to the Old Testament divine pattern of God-called elders who wait upon and serve the LORD and His people to be compensated—for doing the most important and only eternal work in the earth. Paul ties together and builds on his argument by drawing from the divine pattern as it was with Levites, the Levitical priesthood.
“Say I these things as a man? or SAITH NOT THE LAW THE SAME ALSO?” 1 Corinthians 9:8
“Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.” 1 Corinthians 9:13-14
“9:13 Paul next introduces the argument from the support of those who served in the Jewish temple. Those who had official duties in connection with the temple service were supported from the income the temple received. In this sense they lived off the things of the temple. Also, the priests themselves who served at the altar were given a certain portion of the offerings that were brought to the altar. In other words, both the Levites, who had the ordinary duties around the temple, and the priests, to whom were entrusted the more sacred duties, were alike supported for their service.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
Under the Old Covenant, the giving of the people went to the ordained set-apart full time ministers, servants of the LORD—the Levites, the Levitical priesthood. Paul brings that pattern into New Testament giving, supplying for the work of the LORD.
“And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.” Numbers 18:21
Clearly in his discourse on the compensation of God-called ministers, Paul is referring to this provision the LORD made for His servants under the Old Covenant in the middle of declaring and arguing that such is to be so under the New Covenant, in this time of the Church.
“Say I these things as a man? or SAITH NOT THE LAW THE SAME ALSO? … 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.” 1 Corinthians 9:8, 13-14
It is quite an indictment some dare level against God to say that He had, has a plan to call out and use His elders to feed and equip His blood bought flock and somehow has no plans, no provisions to provide for them. Nonsense. The LORD is the One who declared that “the labourer is worthy of his hire” (Luke 10:7). Oh and He needed not nor asked for the puny permission of any mere sinner, man.
There was no money in the New Testament Scriptures collected to build a separate “church” building. The money went to the believers in need (the poor), elders teaching sound doctrine, etc. (Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-35; Romans 15:26; 1 Timothy 5:17-18; 1 Corinthians 9:1-14, etc.). Also, we discussed that the highest paid elders are to be “they who labour in the word and doctrine” (1 Timothy 5:17-18). They are a type of New Testament full time servants of the LORD and His people—such as were the Levites, the Levitical priesthood under the Old Testament who were set apart to seek God and serve His people.
“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” 1 Timothy 5:17-18
It’s interesting that you are not arguing that plumbers, accountants, attorneys, teachers, etc., should not be compensated for their work. Wow. That’s the spirit of antichrist in you, make no mistake.
Your thinking is very convoluted at best, speaking of things being twisted. The King James Bible is the pure preserved Word of God (Psalms 12:6-7). Paul established as did Jesus that the workman of the Gospel is worthy of his hire. This is irrefutable. The way the individual works out his own salvation with fear and trembling is between him and God (Philippians2:12-13).
Clearing Up the Confusion
The lengths some go to in order to dismiss their clear teaching of Scripture is telling, revealing their are antichrists who are speaking against the Word of God. Notice these same people who want God’s pastoral oxen starved out, removed from their posts have never argued that plumbers, accountants, teachers, and doctors, etc. should provide their own way, to refuse to be paid for what they do. Yet what those laborers do is a temporal work, an infinitely inferior work compared to those God calls out to do the most important and only eternal work transpiring in the earth. Repent now.
The abuse of some, of wolves, in no way negates the LORD’s plain teaching that His workers are to be compensated.
“The labourer is worthy of his hire.” Luke 10:7
God’s pattern of the Levites continues:
“Say I these things as a man? or SAITH NOT THE LAW THE SAME ALSO?” 1 Corinthians 9:8
Paul uses the illustration of how the military are worthy of their hire—to be compensated for carrying out their duties to provide protection for a nation.
“Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?” 1 Corinthians 9:7
“Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges?” In other words WHO within the military comes home from war and has to pay the bill he incurred by defending our nation? Does the USA give a bill to its military when they return from war? Such would be ludicrous and yet you foolishly suggest that men called to the infinitely most important warfare for the souls of men should be forced to fund their own way? God plainly disagrees.
To continue to make his point Paul then argues: “Who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof?” Yet you argue that those who plant gardens should refrain from eating of the fruits of that garden? And those who feed their flocks should not be able to drink of the milk of that flock.
Greedy, hoarding counterfeits hate the instruction to give. They have a death grip on their temporal trinkets and rusted gold which will be their eternal undoing (Luke 12, 16). Eternal damnation awaits (Ephesians 5:5).
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Articles
Sabbath Keeping, Justification, Sports, and Non-Essentials [podcast]
Hint: If something is not specifically named as a sin in God’s Word, leave others alone about it. MYOB, right? (Mind Your Own Business)
In this podcast, you will hear about a Recent Phone Call from Hell I received and how it was dealt with.
Over the years, I’ve conversed with men who are religious but not saved. Oh and boy are they fervent and sincere, and yet sincerely dead wrong. This particular phone conversation was no different. Many times Paul’s writings were born out of his defense of the faith of the original Gospel and this message is the same. Perhaps there’s a two-fold blessing in this:
- Continuing to established the essentials set forth in the original Gospel of Christ (John 21:15-17; 1 Timothy 1:5; 2 Timothy 3:15-17, etc.).
- A constructive example of how to biblically handle religious people like this (remember Jesus was most stern and straight with the rich and the religious. See Matthew 23, etc.).
“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12
If all your religious activity hasn’t produced “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost”, all you have thus far is religion, not Jesus. Listen closely to what happens when Jesus saves you:
“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” Romans 14:17
This is the truth of God, the fruit granted to all who’ve truly believed on the LORD Jesus Christ and thereby been saved. One thing’s for certain: The LORD desires to give you “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost”.
Jesus is the Sabbath of Every Saved-by-Grace New Testament Saint – Not a Certain Day
“Sabbath” means intermission, to rest. All of God’s people now rest from attempting to keep the law perfectly and instead rest in the righteousness of Christ, the only One who ever kept the law perfectly.
“For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.” Hebrews 4:3
“Hebrews 4:3: For we which have believed do enter into rest – The great spiritual blessings, the forerunners of eternal glory, which were all typified by that earthly rest or felicity promised to the ancient Israelites, we Christians do, by believing in Christ Jesus, actually possess. We have peace of conscience, and joy in the Holy Ghost; are saved from the guilt and power of sin; and thus enjoy an inward rest.” Adam Clarke
“There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” Hebrews 4:9-10
“In Hebrews 4:10 we are directed to our risen Lord, who has finished the work of Redemption and rests, as God did when He pronounced Creation to be ‘very good.’ When we understand what He meant by ‘It is finished’, we, too, shall rest.” FB Meyer
Some today uphold a certain day instead of the LORD who makes all days (Galatians 4:9-11). They prove to be lost souls. False teachers are known in that they uphold something, ANYthing other than Christ.
“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.” Colossians 2:14-19
Justification
It has been wisely stated that “If you’re flirting with Moses, you’re cheating on Jesus.”
Have you memorized John 1:17 ?
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” John 1:17
How does God save us?
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
The law finds us all guilty of breaking it. Even if it were just once, just one law we broke, we are guilty of breaking all of it and 100% fully worthy of death.
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” James 2:10
God alone can justify us and He does such exclusively through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ His only begotten Son. “It is finished” means “paid in full.”
“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” John 19:30
“Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:4-5
“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Romans 5:1-2
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Romans 10:4
Sports are Not a Sin – Unless they become One’s Idol or put before God.
Paul uses three different sports/games to illustrate spiritual truths, realities. This alone informs us, proves that sports in and of themselves, games, are not a sin. Running (track and field), boxing, and wrestling (1 Corinthians 9:24, 26; Ephesians 6:12).
In all the lists of soul damning sins found in Scripture, not one of them names sports or playing a game as a sin. If that were the case, playing a game of cards with grandma, or going to a nephew’s soccer game, would be a sin. Not. However, the misuse of anything on this earth can come out of a sinful heart of idolatry. Use and misuse. Work out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling and cease being a busybody in the lives of other believers concerning things not essential to one’s salvation (Romans 14; Philippians 2:12-13; 1 Peter 4:15).
“And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.” 1 Corinthians 7:31
What the Bible Teaches about Non-Essentials, Things not Essential to Salvation.
Never judge or destroy God’s work in the life of another saint for things that are non-essential, NOT essential to salvation.
“Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. … 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. … 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.”
Justification | Support | STORE | Podcasts |
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Hostile Watching vs Grounded Readiness for Christ’s Return [podcast]
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