Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy and Heretics
Does mankind have a sin nature, a bent toward evil? If so, where did that come from? What really happened at the fall? Can fallen mankind, by his own “natural ability”, self-will to overcome all sin? If so, WHY did Jesus come? (Galatians 2:21) | Charles Finney was a false teacher.
As a side, note: I’ve had people disown me for exposing Charles Finney which seems to a cult-like indoctrination and the corresponding devils (demons) that come with espousing “doctrines of devils.” Remember that “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” are inseparable. Any person who believes a doctrine of devils has evil seducing spirit, a demon in his/her life.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
No one is guilty for someone else’s sin. God holds each individual guilty, fully responsible for their own sin (Ezekiel 18). Yet that in no way negates or changes the fact that something bad happened when man sinned against God in the Garden. If so, rip Romans 3, 5, and 7 out of your Bible. To deny such, to ignore such is the path to delusionment. This has tripped up many otherwise truth-seeking people today. The main source of this poison has come through the heretical ministries of men like Charles Finney.
“Salvation is the work of man.” Charles Finney
The no-sin-nature (“old man“, “flesh”)-to-crucify heresy is just another cross-less lie. It’s peddled by those who refuse to die and who pretend to be sinless perfection by means of their own “natural ability.” Beware of these antichrists.
If there were no inherent sinful bend, bent, iniquitous nature…. WHY O WHY would Paul have repeatedly taught that Christ’s disciples must “keep under” their “body” or flesh, the old man? (1 Corinthians 9:27) Why the cross if there is nothing to daily crucify? Someone is lying and it’s not Jesus and His holy apostles. Beware. Think biblically. | Judgment to Come Necessitates the Crucified Life [podcast]
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“My question is if Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the sins of the son and vice versa how does God count Adam’s sin against us?”
REPLY:
No, Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the responsibility of the son and vice versa. That’s different. In other words the sins the father chooses to commit or walk in he shall long bear the judgment for. God says in Ezekiel 18:4 that each individual soul is HIS and will be rewarded according to the choices he makes while on earth. The father will not give account for the son nor the son for the father. Read Ezekiel 18. There were wicked kings with good children such as wicked king Abijam vs his son Asa who chose to do right. 1 Kings 15.
Ezekiel 18 is the same teaching as this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
Have you read Romans 5 lately? v12, 18-19
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22
All men are born after Adam and then choose Christ or to reject Him. Matthew 12:30; Mark 16:16, etc.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So, you believe that God has made us fallen? Back to my point, why IF we are made perfect by God Ps 139 then how are we born into a sinful nature? It is either constituted or practiced unto unto total depravity.
My other point was that the moral neutrality that God has given us at birth with the knowledge of good and evil swirling all round us. The weakness of the flesh to temptation and then sin, and then death is easily revealed.”
REPLY:
I would exhort you to put off the things you’ve learned and read Romans 7 afresh. Also Galatians 5:17-18. Call it what you wish, something is raging within, there is a war within. The Bible calls it the flesh, the old man which can only be put off by the crucified life (Romans 6; 8:11-14).
‘For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.’ Galatians 5:17-18
Why would Jesus mandate self must be denied if there were nothing to deny, to be crucified? (Luke 9:23-24)
You keep saying or asking if I believe God made us fallen. Sorry but I have repeatedly stated that God made us perfect. Genesis 1:31; Eccl 7:29 etc. Of his own God-given free will, man chose to sin against God – all by himself (Genesis 6:5, 12; Romans 3; James 1:13-15, etc.).
You don’t seem to realize that there was a fall in sin-less paradise, in the Garden. And you won’t until read Romans 3 and 5 and believe it. Begin with a prayer, asking the LORD to remove the poison you’ve been indoctrinated with by wicked men such as Charles Finney. v12, 18-19 of Romans 5 for sure.
What happened at the fall? Is the wages of sin not death? Romans 6:23 In the divine economy of God who is “Holy, holy, holy,” does sin not have a profound effect? Are you denying that sin affected mankind? Such would be diametrically opposed to and against the clear teaching of Romans 3, 5, 7.
You are only half way to the truth with the idea of “moral neutrality.” Such would deny lots of what Scripture informs us of concerning our heart being “only evil continually,” “desperately wicked,” etc. Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9
Those who do not study and know God’s Word thoroughly are susceptible to being deceived by the “many false prophets” that “are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Example: There’s a group of heretics that run around boldly declaring the lie that there is no sinful bent in believers. Nonsense. Mike Desario and Charles Finney were both false teachers.
These dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, mankind’s fallen sinful state, and what God has said about fallen mankind.
Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according to Christ (Matthew 21:31)! There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.
YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)
Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.
God made us one way, perfect. But then we sinned and something bad happened.
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31
God made mankind and said “it was very good.” Then man sinned and incurred death (Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 5:18-19). The details of the curse that came upon mankind when Adam and Eve sinned against God, are given to us in Genesis 3. Death came into man at the fall. Something happened, and it wasn’t good. Read Romans 7.
“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
God made us perfect but WE chose sin and fell and there are consequences for sin, right? And there’s also salvation, redemption, regeneration, choice, the cross, victory that we can choose to receive and walk in.
“Total depravity” is a false doctrine of calvinism which says “we are so sinful and we have no choice about anything. We have no ability to turn to God in repentance and faith to be redeemed, regenerated, made new creatures, temples of the Holy Spirit in Christ.” False.
We have the choice, the privilege to choose Christ and His cross to overcome all depravity, sin.
The Word says things like we are “desperately wicked” right? See Jeremiah 17:9. How about Genesis 6:5, 12 too, right? There’s Romans 3, 5, 6, 7 for the effects of sin, and 8 for the victory of Christ.
The no-sin-nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
In my understanding…. the no-sin-nature doctrine does not stand the test of the whole counsel of God’s Word. It is vehemently peddled by some today (Proverbs 14:12).
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so, so often? Read Romans 3, 5-7 afresh, carefully.
If there were nothing to “put off,” this divine command would not exist (Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:8-9). All the Scriptures on the cross, the crucified life, would be useless if there were nothing to crucify – there would be no cross to “take up” which would mean we call Jesus a lunatic and liar for having commanded us to take up the cross, to live a crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; 14:27).
Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!
How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? See Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8.
Mankind’s fallen state:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6)?
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21
Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).
Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.
“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”
REPLY:
Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT” (Romans 5:11).
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So we have the same flesh as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”
REPLY:
Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.
Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42), but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Timothy 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.
You “think”? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”
REPLY:
You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her excuses was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.
I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.
I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.
In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc.. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.
As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.
Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.
I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.”
REPLY:
God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more” (John 8). You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Colossians 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Colossians 1:12-14).
You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Luke 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME” (Romans 7:21). “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Romans 6:-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17), and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature, and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10). Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v. 13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23
This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:4-5).
Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.
Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.” First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.
You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.
It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.” ALL you need is God’s Word, and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Psalms. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Peter 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).
Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).
You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Proverbs 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.
I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.
And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”
REPLY:
You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.
Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.
What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).
Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM” (Romans 7:24). This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done” (Luke 22:42). Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.
Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer
To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it. I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).
Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”
Atonement is a “theory”? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain” (Galatians 2:21). It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error” (1 John 4:1-6).
It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.
God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29). He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9). Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28
God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world” (John 1:29). The singular use of “sin” here is telling.
If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)
todd
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Notes:
As should be obvious, we continue to war against this Charles Finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self
No propensity toward sin?
Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others” (Ephesians 2:1-3). See also Romans 7.
The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..
God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).
There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).
1 John 2:1-2
Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. Gal 3:3
Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.
Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).
Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).
Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).
The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.
***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13
Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19
One writer notes:
“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross. The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”



Articles
“A Flattering Mouth Worketh Ruin”

Using Deceit to Ensnare and Inflict Evil
“A Flattering Mouth Worketh Ruin” Proverbs 26:28
The “ruin” wrought by way of flattery is incalculable.
“He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.” Proverbs 20:19
Firstly, realize that the LORD is warning us here about talebearers or those who carry or bear about tales. Then we learn that the “talebearer revealeth secrets” or dispenses to others “secrets” not fitting to be shared with anyone else other those necessary, that is, those who already know those things. Because of how the enemy of souls uses talebearers, we are then warned to “meddle not” with such persons who are characterized by their cunning ability to flatter their way into our lives, making us feel comfortable with them so that in a vulnerable moment, we reveals “secrets” to them about something in our past that they really had no business knowing. Beware saints. There are those who operate this way. They sliver into your life by flattering you, telling you how wonderful you are and how well they like the way you minister. Then, they insidiously siphon out secret information from you, saving it in memory for just the right time to use against you.
You are not accountable for divulging past sins to anyone. When you repented and confessed that sin before God, He forgave you and remove those sins “as far as the east is from the west (infinity).”(Isaiah 44:22) The LORD has “cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.”
“Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.” Micah 7:18-19
Your sin was against God and God alone who alone is “Holy, holy, holy.” (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8).
“Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight.” Psalms 51:4
“Sheep in the Midst of Wolves”
A believer armed with these truths will be far less susceptible to the while of the wicked wolves who lurk in our very midst.
“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” Matthew 10:16
The innocent seem to be the most vulnerable because they imagine in their hearts that others are as they are, innocent.Be on guard and walk prayerfully, according to the Word, and in the Spirit and the LORD will deliver you from “the snare of the fowler” or hunter (Psalms 17:4).
“Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.” Psalms 91:3
Beware of those who seek to manipulate you to divulge information about your past, even in so-called counseling sessions, most of which are not holy or biblical anyway. Jesus told us to not give out pearls to swine. In principle perhaps that refers to giving anything to swine who will use them against you in the future.
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6
Proverbs 26:28 says: “A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.”
Hunters are very clever at capturing their prey. Deceivers are clever and use clandestine methods to beguile their intended prey. The intended victim must be enticed or lured in using some type of bait or false affirmation/flattery. Concerning wolves who prey on Christ’s precious sheep, the Bible uses the imagery of a hunter who sets a trap for his prey. It speaks of those who “lie in wait to deceive.”(Ephesians 4:14)
“A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his feet.” Proverbs 29:5
It’s obvious that there is a hidden motive in that one who would flatter. Holy Scripture would instruct us to know that some people, while speaking smoothly, have war or evil in their hearts. They hide their hatred and wicked agenda behind a flattering tongue and a smile.
“The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.” Psalms 55:21
In order to spiritually know when someone is deceitfully flattering, the disciple should ask the LORD for keener discernment and the “discerning of spirits” which is one of the nine gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:10). One of the reasons that we need this gift of the Holy Spirit, is because some who flatter to snare actually seem to be men or women of God. Some of these guys actually preach some good stuff, have a website, call themselves “pastor” to gain clout, and are devil-possessed. Beware and stay in prayer.
People who have self-appointed themselves as representatives of Christ and Christianity are no knew thing. Wolves amidst the sheep of the LORD is no new reality. Even in eternity past, Lucifer (the light bearer) beguiled and misled a third of the LORD’s angels. We then see him slivering into the Garden of creation as a cunning snake who with flattery, lies, and deceit, caused the first sin among men and the fall of mankind (Genesis 3).
“The watchman of Ephraim was with my God: but the prophet is a snare of a fowler in all his ways, and hatred in the house of his God.” Hosea 9:8
False shepherds and false prophets have always dwelled among God’s people (Jeremiah 23; Ezekiel 34; Matthew 23, etc.).
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Articles
PURGATORY: CATHOLIC FRAUD [podcast]

Purgatory is never once mentioned in God’s Word and is a blatant and antichrist denial of the efficacy of the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
“One of the scandalous practices of the Catholic church was the sale of “indulgences” to raise money. Indulgences allowed Catholics to buy forgiveness for their sins with cold, hard cash. Most remember that indulgences were one of the primary reasons Martin Luther made the cataclysmic decision to leave the Catholic church and start the “Protestant” movement. However, few realize that indulgences were used by the Catholic church as a primary source of revenue for over a thousand years, and that the practice did not end as a result of Luther’s protests:
“The cost of running the church’s kingdom while maintaining the profligate lifestyle of one of Europe’s grandest courts pressured the Vatican always to look for ways to bring in more money. Taxes and fees levied on the Papal States paid most of the empire’s basic expenses. The sales of produce from its agriculturally rich northern land as well as rents collected from its properties throughout Europe brought in extra cash. But over time that was not enough to fuel the lavish lifestyles of the Pope and his top clerics. The church found the money it needed in the selling of so-called indulgences, a sixth-century invention whereby the faithful paid for a piece of paper that promised that God would forgo any earthly punishment for the buyer’s sins. The early church’s penances were often severe, including flogging, imprisonment, or even death. Although some indulgences were free, the best ones — promising the most redemption for the gravest sins — were expensive. The Vatican set prices according to the severity of the sin and they were initially available only to those who made a pilgrimage to Rome.” Delancyplace.com
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” Hebrews 9:27-28
Notice that after a person dies, “after this the judgment” and not purgatory!
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God died for, paid the full and complete price for all sin one time on the cross and anyone believing in purgatory spits in the face of a holy God, openly claiming that the sacrifice of Christ was not enough. Such openly deny Christ and are antichrists.
—— CATHOLIC PURGATORIAL FAIRY TALE SCAM ….. ABSOLUTE BLASPHEMY AND OPEN DENIAL OF THE EFFICACY OF THE VERY BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. PURE GIMMICK – $–PAY YOUR DEAD RELATIVE OUT OF PURGATORY? The Catholic indulgence system is completely diabolical and antichrist. This system teaches that living relatives can $ pay $ their dead relatives out of purgatory (no such thing) by giving monies to the Catholic church. This system wasn’t even initiated until the twelfth century by the then pope in order to raise money for the financially hurting Roman Catholic church. This delusional lie, myth, and exploitation is antichrist in that it brazenly denies the efficacy and power of the blood of Jesus shed once, and good for all time (John 19:30; Hebrews 10:12).
***IN THE MIDDLE AGES, A CERTAIN POPE AT THAT TIME INVENTED THE TEACHING OF PURGATORY TO RAISE $MONEY$ FOR THE FINANCIALLY HURTING ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
IS PURGATORY A CATHOLIC FRAUD? IS THERE EVEN ONE MENTION OF A purgatory in the Bible? Could it be that PURGATORY is a mere scheme to obtain money from poor souls who pay the Catholic church $$$ thinking they are getting some loved one out of a place that doesn’t even exist – purgatory? THE INVENTION OF PURGATORY is but one of the diabolic devices the aCtholic church holds over its people to deceive, delude and ultimately destroy them in eternal damnation.
Heaven and hell (as eternal destinations) appear approximately 600 times in God’s Word and purgatory appears no where – not even once in Holy Scripture.
$$$–Catholic “indulgences” are monies/revenues paid to the Catholic church to get people out of “purgatory” – a place that doesn’t even exist – THIS IS FRAUDULENT!!!
$$$–Purgatory is nothing less than a money-making scam of the Catholic church exploiting its own people$$$.
Does not purgatory exploit the precious Catholic people FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED TO COMPLETELY FORGIVE?
Is purgatory a money-making $$$ lie? – through the sale of Catholic “indulgences”??
The most blasphemous element about this fraud is that PURGATORY DENIES CHRIST’S REDEMPTION by saying His blood was not enough to pay for ALL sins.
Purgatory is simply another Catholic lie.
If God named “Heaven” 582 times and “hell” 54 times by name in His Word, He certainly would have named “purgatory” (by name) if such a place existed.
Purgatory IS a big deal because the Roman religion stands or falls on whether it is teaching God’s holy Word which is final authority.
IF “THE BLOOD OF JESUS CLEANSES US FROM ALL SINS” (1 John 1:7), WHY WOULD GOD INSTITUTE A SO-CALLED PLACE OF “PURIFICATION” NAMED PURGATORY? HE SIMPLY DIDN’T. “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin” (1 John 1:7).
Only the blood of Jesus applied by the grace of God and faith can save from eternal damnation.
Jesus says that justification is instantaneous (John 6:47).
IS PURGATORY A MONEY-MAKING SCHEME?
PURGE-atory is a lie because it purports that once a “good Catholic” dies, he is then PURGED in an intermediate state. Purgatory is blasphemy against the finished work of Jesus Christ who stated on the cross that “It IS finished” (John 19:30). The teaching of purgatory is just one more way the roman church denies the total sufficiency of the cross of Jesus Christ our LORD causing millions to be deluded and lost and without true love and peace that only God can give as a person comes to Him the way He prescribed – in His Word – Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father.
CHRIST’S BLOOD IS GOD’S MERCY.
Jesus is the only Hope God gave us for forgiveness of sins. Jesus stated, “The Son of man hath power ON EARTH (not in purgatory) to forgive sins” (Matthew 9:6).
PURGATORY EXISTS NOWHERE IN HOLY SCRIPTURE IN WORD NOR CONCEPT.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS A WASTELAND OF IDOLS.
WHERE ARE SINS FORGIVEN? ON EARTH OR “PURGATORY”??? Jesus stated, “The Son of man hath power ON EARTH to forgive sins” (Matthew 9:6).
WHO ARE SINS FORGIVEN BY???? Jesus stated, “The Son of man hath power ON EARTH to forgive sins” (Matthew 9:6).
1 John 1:7 “the blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sins.” No need for a so-called “purgatory” OR CATHOLIC PRIEST.
THE BIBLE CLEARLY TEACHES US THAT THE PUNISHMENT FOR ALL OUR SINS WAS POURED OUT UPON CHRIST ON THE CROSS – ONE TIME, 2,000 YEARS AGO – THEY ARE DEALT WITH COMPLETELY FOR THOSE WHO ARE BORN AGAIN.
DID GOD DO A COMPLETE AND “FINISHED” WORK THROUGH CHRIST? ARE YOU CALLING HIM A LIAR? JESUS SAID, WHILE DYING ON THE CROSS FOR US “IT IS FINISHED (COMPLETE)” (John 19:30).
DID CHRIST FAIL IN HIS MISSION? DO WE NOW NEED SOME COSTUME-WEARING PRIESTHOOD OF SODOMITES TO HELP GOD OUT AND TELL US WHAT TO DO? ABSURD!
ARE YOU CALLING THE SON OF GOD A LIAR?
“It IS finished” simply means that the total and complete price for the sins of the whole world were paid for “one time” on the cross by Christ alone (John 19:30; Heb. 10:12-14).
ONLY JESUS CAN CLEANSE: “Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me” (John 13:8).
ONLY JESUS CAN WASH AWAY SINS, NOT PURGATORY. JESUS TOLD PETER: “If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me” (John 13:8).
OFFICIAL CATHOLIC TEACHING/DOGMA:
The following statements can be verified by consulting volumes 1 and 2 of the book, Vatican Council II printed by Costello Publishing Co., Northport, New York. Austin Flannery, O. P., is the general editor and each volume contains the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur. The editions are: 1984 (Vol. 1) and 1982 (Vol. 2).
This most recent Roman Catholic Council, which closed on December 8, 1965, is the current official stand of Roman Catholicism. The following quotes are that official stand. (Bold print has been used for emphasis. Furthermore, brackets have been used to increase clarity.)
(10) “We believe that the souls of all those who die in the grace of Christ — whether they must still make expiation in the fire of Purgatory, or whether from the moment they leave their bodies they are received by Jesus into Paradise like the good thief — go to form that People of God ….” (Vol. 2, p. 394)
(12) “The doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away, punishment for it or the consequences of it may remain to be expiated or cleansed.” (Vol. 1, p. 64)
(d) “If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.” (ibid., p. 46 — Sixth Session, Chapter XVI, Canon 30)
1 Corinthians 3 is where Paul is simply using this imagery to show that the works true believers did while on earth that were not truly out of the right heart motive, would not be rewarded.
Have you ever been told in a Catholic church that you could not go to Heaven unless you are “born again”? The Son of God said “Ye MUST be born again” (John 3:7). You can’t go to Heaven without being “born again” – the Bible way.
Purgatory simply is not found in the Bible and actually blatantly contradicts Bible doctrine.
If you are a Catholic defender, please quote the verses verbatim and tell everyone here how many times the word “purgatory” appears in the Bible.
Purgatory is a mere proofless myth – invented to steal money from the Catholic people.
Purgatory is a fool’s hope – eternal hell awaits all who die without being born again (the Bible way).
The Bible never mentions purgatory … it’s a myth and wasn’t invented till the 12th century in order to scam money from the Catholic people by selling indulgences.
Hell is the eternal and unending judgment of the holy God of Heaven and earth upon all those who do not repent, falling upon His mercy through the blood of Jesus Christ – BEFORE THEY LEAVE THE EARTH.
We are only made holy by God through Jesus’ blood – THIS IS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST – not some mythical and unbiblical place called “purgatory.”
THOSE WHO DISREGARD THE BLOOD OF CHRIST MUST SUFFER ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN HELL: “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29).
THE WORD OF GOD IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY NOT THE ROMAN CHURCH – who are you going to trust? God or the Catholic church?
What is there to understand other than the Catholic teaching of purgatory is a blatant denial of the sufficiency of Christ’s blood which was shed to pay for ALL sins one time on the cross (John 19:30; Heb. 10:12, etc.). While dying on the cross for our sins, Jesus said “It IS finished” which simply means that all the sins of mankind were paid for in full by His blood and there was therefore no need ever for any other sacrifice for sin – including the vile and vain idea that man could ever pay for his own sin debt in a place that doesn’t even exist (“purgatory”).
PURGATORY IS JUST ONE OF MANY exploitational devices of the Catholic church. Purgatory exploits the Catholic people, leading them to destitution and despair and ultimately damnation. These poor souls, most of which are in dire straits financially, to afford a funeral are then asked to give $$$money$$$ to the Roman church (which is already the richest organization in the world). How can this be!
JESUS also said “Sanctify them through thy Word, the Word is truth” (John 17:17).
If Jesus’ blood totally cleanses of all sins those who believe upon Him, what need would God have for a purgatory? HE simply never mentioned such a place – it is a Catholic myth – A LIE FROM HELL.
What is your faith built on? God’s Word/truth or religious myth? Your eternity is in the balance – better check it out;)
WILL YOU TRUST THE CONFUSED & CHANGING TEACHINGS OF SINFUL MEN OR THE CLEAR AND UNCHANGING TRUTHS OF A LOVING AND HOLY GOD WHOSE WORD NEVER CHANGES?
JESUS WARNED US TO “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening (devouring) wolves” (Matthew 7:15).
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Abiding
“Lord, Teach us to Pray” [podcast]

“Truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.” 1 John 1:3
Prayer is simply communing with God.
“One of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray.” Luke 11:1
“Lord, teach us to pray.” Christ’s disciples today should ask the LORD to “teach us to pray.” The disciples called on Jesus to teach them to pray—to have a prayer life, to live a life of prayer, to commune with Him and the Father perpetually. Christ answered them and us by giving the whole Church a model prayer to be followed in spontaneous and joyful relationship. Here it is:
“And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a
certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples
said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also
taught his disciples. 2 And he said unto them,
When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in
heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom
come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 3
Give us day by day our daily bread. 4 And forgive
us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is
indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.” Luke 11:1-4
When addressing the remove of the words “Our” and “which art in heaven” by the fake, the corrupted “bibles,” one writes asks:
“Is your Bible geared to glorify antichrist? Is your Bible going to be used by antichrist to convince you he is Jesus?” unknown
Jesus is coming—ready or not.
“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Matthew 26:41
Prayer is to spiritual life what breathing is to the natural life. If you stop breathing, you die. If we don’t “pray without ceasing” we will not be in the will of God, will not be obeying God, and will fall into temptation, into sin.
“Pray without ceasing.” 1 Thessalonians 5:17
You cannot and will not overcome sin and Satan, the world, and the flesh, without living a life of prayer.
Prayer: Father in Heaven, in the name of Jesus Christ, I ask You
to teach me to pray. Here and now, I lay my life into Your holy
hands afresh. You must increase, and I must decrease. In the
name of Jesus, please bless this life to be dead and buried and
raised up by You, LORD. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
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