Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy and Heretics
Does mankind have a sin nature, a bent toward evil? If so, where did that come from? What really happened at the fall? Can fallen mankind, by his own “natural ability”, self-will to overcome all sin? If so, WHY did Jesus come? (Galatians 2:21) | Charles Finney was a false teacher.
As a side, note: I’ve had people disown me for exposing Charles Finney which seems to a cult-like indoctrination and the corresponding devils (demons) that come with espousing “doctrines of devils.” Remember that “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” are inseparable. Any person who believes a doctrine of devils has evil seducing spirit, a demon in his/her life.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
No one is guilty for someone else’s sin. God holds each individual guilty, fully responsible for their own sin (Ezekiel 18). Yet that in no way negates or changes the fact that something bad happened when man sinned against God in the Garden. If so, rip Romans 3, 5, and 7 out of your Bible. To deny such, to ignore such is the path to delusionment. This has tripped up many otherwise truth-seeking people today. The main source of this poison has come through the heretical ministries of men like Charles Finney.
“Salvation is the work of man.” Charles Finney
The no-sin-nature (“old man“, “flesh”)-to-crucify heresy is just another cross-less lie. It’s peddled by those who refuse to die and who pretend to be sinless perfection by means of their own “natural ability.” Beware of these antichrists.
If there were no inherent sinful bend, bent, iniquitous nature…. WHY O WHY would Paul have repeatedly taught that Christ’s disciples must “keep under” their “body” or flesh, the old man? (1 Corinthians 9:27) Why the cross if there is nothing to daily crucify? Someone is lying and it’s not Jesus and His holy apostles. Beware. Think biblically. | Judgment to Come Necessitates the Crucified Life [podcast]
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“My question is if Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the sins of the son and vice versa how does God count Adam’s sin against us?”
REPLY:
No, Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the responsibility of the son and vice versa. That’s different. In other words the sins the father chooses to commit or walk in he shall long bear the judgment for. God says in Ezekiel 18:4 that each individual soul is HIS and will be rewarded according to the choices he makes while on earth. The father will not give account for the son nor the son for the father. Read Ezekiel 18. There were wicked kings with good children such as wicked king Abijam vs his son Asa who chose to do right. 1 Kings 15.
Ezekiel 18 is the same teaching as this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
Have you read Romans 5 lately? v12, 18-19
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22
All men are born after Adam and then choose Christ or to reject Him. Matthew 12:30; Mark 16:16, etc.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So, you believe that God has made us fallen? Back to my point, why IF we are made perfect by God Ps 139 then how are we born into a sinful nature? It is either constituted or practiced unto unto total depravity.
My other point was that the moral neutrality that God has given us at birth with the knowledge of good and evil swirling all round us. The weakness of the flesh to temptation and then sin, and then death is easily revealed.”
REPLY:
I would exhort you to put off the things you’ve learned and read Romans 7 afresh. Also Galatians 5:17-18. Call it what you wish, something is raging within, there is a war within. The Bible calls it the flesh, the old man which can only be put off by the crucified life (Romans 6; 8:11-14).
‘For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.’ Galatians 5:17-18
Why would Jesus mandate self must be denied if there were nothing to deny, to be crucified? (Luke 9:23-24)
You keep saying or asking if I believe God made us fallen. Sorry but I have repeatedly stated that God made us perfect. Genesis 1:31; Eccl 7:29 etc. Of his own God-given free will, man chose to sin against God – all by himself (Genesis 6:5, 12; Romans 3; James 1:13-15, etc.).
You don’t seem to realize that there was a fall in sin-less paradise, in the Garden. And you won’t until read Romans 3 and 5 and believe it. Begin with a prayer, asking the LORD to remove the poison you’ve been indoctrinated with by wicked men such as Charles Finney. v12, 18-19 of Romans 5 for sure.
What happened at the fall? Is the wages of sin not death? Romans 6:23 In the divine economy of God who is “Holy, holy, holy,” does sin not have a profound effect? Are you denying that sin affected mankind? Such would be diametrically opposed to and against the clear teaching of Romans 3, 5, 7.
You are only half way to the truth with the idea of “moral neutrality.” Such would deny lots of what Scripture informs us of concerning our heart being “only evil continually,” “desperately wicked,” etc. Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9
Those who do not study and know God’s Word thoroughly are susceptible to being deceived by the “many false prophets” that “are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Example: There’s a group of heretics that run around boldly declaring the lie that there is no sinful bent in believers. Nonsense. Mike Desario and Charles Finney were both false teachers.
These dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, mankind’s fallen sinful state, and what God has said about fallen mankind.
Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according to Christ (Matthew 21:31)! There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.
YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)
Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.
God made us one way, perfect. But then we sinned and something bad happened.
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31
God made mankind and said “it was very good.” Then man sinned and incurred death (Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 5:18-19). The details of the curse that came upon mankind when Adam and Eve sinned against God, are given to us in Genesis 3. Death came into man at the fall. Something happened, and it wasn’t good. Read Romans 7.
“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
God made us perfect but WE chose sin and fell and there are consequences for sin, right? And there’s also salvation, redemption, regeneration, choice, the cross, victory that we can choose to receive and walk in.
“Total depravity” is a false doctrine of calvinism which says “we are so sinful and we have no choice about anything. We have no ability to turn to God in repentance and faith to be redeemed, regenerated, made new creatures, temples of the Holy Spirit in Christ.” False.
We have the choice, the privilege to choose Christ and His cross to overcome all depravity, sin.
The Word says things like we are “desperately wicked” right? See Jeremiah 17:9. How about Genesis 6:5, 12 too, right? There’s Romans 3, 5, 6, 7 for the effects of sin, and 8 for the victory of Christ.
The no-sin-nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
In my understanding…. the no-sin-nature doctrine does not stand the test of the whole counsel of God’s Word. It is vehemently peddled by some today (Proverbs 14:12).
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so, so often? Read Romans 3, 5-7 afresh, carefully.
If there were nothing to “put off,” this divine command would not exist (Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:8-9). All the Scriptures on the cross, the crucified life, would be useless if there were nothing to crucify – there would be no cross to “take up” which would mean we call Jesus a lunatic and liar for having commanded us to take up the cross, to live a crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; 14:27).
Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!
How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? See Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8.
Mankind’s fallen state:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6)?
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21
Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).
Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.
“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”
REPLY:
Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT” (Romans 5:11).
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So we have the same flesh as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”
REPLY:
Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.
Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42), but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Timothy 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.
You “think”? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”
REPLY:
You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her excuses was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.
I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.
I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.
In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc.. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.
As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.
Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.
I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.”
REPLY:
God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more” (John 8). You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Colossians 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Colossians 1:12-14).
You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Luke 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME” (Romans 7:21). “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Romans 6:-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17), and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature, and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10). Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v. 13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23
This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:4-5).
Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.
Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.” First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.
You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.
It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.” ALL you need is God’s Word, and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Psalms. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Peter 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).
Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).
You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Proverbs 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.
I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.
And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”
REPLY:
You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.
Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.
What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).
Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM” (Romans 7:24). This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done” (Luke 22:42). Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.
Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer
To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it. I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).
Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”
Atonement is a “theory”? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain” (Galatians 2:21). It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error” (1 John 4:1-6).
It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.
God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29). He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9). Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28
God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world” (John 1:29). The singular use of “sin” here is telling.
If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)
todd
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Notes:
As should be obvious, we continue to war against this Charles Finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self
No propensity toward sin?
Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others” (Ephesians 2:1-3). See also Romans 7.
The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..
God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).
There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).
1 John 2:1-2
Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. Gal 3:3
Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.
Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).
Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).
Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).
The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.
***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13
Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19
One writer notes:
“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross. The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”
Articles
“Evolution is a Fairy Tale for Grownups” … “The Greatest Hoax Ever
Clear proof that the devil can only make a monkey out of fools who deny the existence of their own Maker. – SIMPLE QUESTION: IF MAN CAME FROM MONKEYS, WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS?
“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” Psalms 14:1
Is it possible to have a painting and not a painter?
Got proof?
Did the painting paint itself?
Is it scientific, is it honest to acknowledge a creation and deny there’s a Creator?
Got proof?
Can something come out of nothing? Where did the evolutionary primordial soup come from that what we see now somehow came out of? WHO created that soup? Does the first law of science not acknowledge that “something cannot come out of nothing”?
By definition, science is defined as the study of what already exists. Otherwise there would be no science, nothing to study, right? What would you say of a person who while claiming to be scientific, simultaneously denies there’s anything to study? Are we studying something that doesn’t exist? If we are studying, that means we exist, right? If we are examining, studying something, that means that that something already exists, correct? Where did it come from?
Those who deny there’s a Creator, are simply being moral cowards who want to deny the need to obey the Judge of their eternal souls before whom we shall all stand before to give full account of every intent of the heart and action.
Robert Beriault notes:
“They have disproved evolution many years ago, by mapping our genome. It proved that humans were always humans and monkeys were always monkeys. And through God‘s fingerprints in the Fibonacci sequence. The question is why are they still teaching it to our kids? The beast system as its best.”
Charles Darwin was a satanist – The theory of evolution is mere baseless theory, mythology, a fairytale for grown ups who refuse to take personal responsibility for their lives before a holy God.
“To suppose that the eye… could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible. degree.” Charles Darwin, 1872
THERE’S NOTHING SCIENTIFIC ABOUT EVOLUTION. Undisputably, it’s a proofless myth, a lie, a fraud.
If mankind evolved from apes, why are there still apes? Where O where is the intermediary species? Where’s the proof? There is not 1 iota of evidence of such the whole world over.
Is mankind the evolution of apes?
IF HUMANS CAME FROM APES, WHY ARE THERE STILL APES? WHERE IS THE INTERMEDIARY SPECIES?
Apes are beasts, animals. They can’t laugh, cry, or reason. God made only MANKIND in His own image (Genesis 1). Satan is the author of this erroneous doctrine of evolution. He’s the one who want children, people to believe they are just animals, so they act like such. He’s the liar and the father of all lies who has come to steal, to kill, and to destroy (John 8:44; 10:10), Those who don’t walk in the truth of God, given all men in Holy Scripture, will be “destroyed”, the pawns of the evil one who “walketh about seeking whom he may devour.” (Hosea 4:6; 1 Peter 5:8)
God made each species of HIS creation to PRODUCE AFTER IT’S OWN KIND and so that dispels the myth, the rank heresy of evolution (Genesis 1). Adaption can be observed but not evolution. Species simply do not become something other than what they were made to be, what they are coded to be. There is no proof the world over for such a myth as the evolution of species. A term makes nothing true, especially in this case where there is no proof. Adding “millions of years” to a mere theory doesn’t change that such a theory is mythology, not truth. Think about it: If you went home today and emptied out your gargage, and waited a year to see if something would magically appear in that garage, would it happen? No. What if you waited 10 years? How about a thousand, a million years? Would time itself cause something, anything to somehow appear in your garage? No.
Fact: There’s not 1 stitch, not 1 iota of evidence of evolution in every museum in the world. It’s been called a “fairy tale for grown ups.”
Adaptation is part of CREATION. It merely speaks to a loving God who made men and even animals to adapt to their environment on HIS earth where He created and placed them (Psalms 8). There is no museum in the entire world that has a stitch of proof of evolution. “The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no God.” (Psalms 14:1)
“Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups.” Dr. Louis Bounoure, Director of the Zoological Museum and Director of Research at the National Center of Scientific Research in France, J. Rostand, “LaMonde et la Vie,” October 1963, p. 31 from V. Long, “Evolution: A Fairy Tale for Adults,” Homiletic and Pastoral Review, Vol 78 (1978), no. 7, pp. 27-32
“Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact.” Dr. T. N. Tahmisian, Physiologist, Atomic Energy Commission. As quoted in: Evolution and the Emperor’s New Clothes, 3D Enterprises Limited, 1983, title page
Primordial Pudding and the Pawns who Promote it. | Evolution/Atheism Debunked category
Making Peace with God – Before it’s too late
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Articles
Mexico Mission Update Part 28
SATURDAY
ONLY GOD can do stuff like this!
SMH for His goodness.
After asking Luis (pictured below) where a certain food item was, he showed me and a lengthy conversation ensued. Luis was asking me questions about the USA after he found out that is where I originally from. At some point in the conversation, Luis said “make another statement in Spanish.” I guess he was seeking to measure how much Spanish I had learned. This caught me off guard yet I said “Jesus Christ reigns” in Spanish. AS SOON as I began saying those words, a dear man and his wife (Manuel) were turning the corner into that isle and so as I spoke those words I looked Manuel (whom I’d never before laid eyes on) straight into his face in order not to waste or limit who God’s Word was being spoken to. Manuel immediately lit up and rejoiced to hear God’s Word because he and his lovely wife are on-fire disciples of Jesus! Manuel then began ministering to beloved Luis who is not yet saved. The timing and arrangement of this event was nothing less than a divine miracle. We were all quite stunned at how this unfolded. Everyone exchanged contact info and Luis is going to continue to minister to and lead Luis to Jesus.
JESUS CHRIST IS MINISTERING TO AND SAVING SOULS!!!!
RECENTLY: Another 1,500 more JESUS tracts in Spanish picked up from the printer.
LAST NIGHT: Just got back in. Was able to pass out dozens upon dozens of JESUS tracts and speak God’s Word to each person…. ran out of tracts and loving it. Home restocking the pouch now.
The amazing people of Mexico are receiving the Gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16). Your prayers coveted.
The only spirit I have ever been in with ministering to Mexican people is “compassion.” Jude 22-23
They give no resistance, only acceptance to Jesus, the message of His Gospel.
I am praying for you all….. part of me wants to encourage more people to pray about leaving…. for their own safety and fruitfulness in Christ. Just a thought.
The amazing people of Mexico are receiving the Gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16). Your prayers coveted.
LAST NIGHT: AFTER sending out the weekly Bible teaching tonight, a young man named Julio here in Mexico replied with this:
“I want to learn the word of God, thank you for sharing the word of God with me.” Julio
He’s not yet saved (that I know of) and he’s reading the Word he’s being sent and now has the 4 ministry books in Spanish, including the Born Again book and the JESUS tract, etc.
Thank you for praying for our brother in Christ, Justin.
“About two weeks ago I would wake up spontaneously praising and thanking God. Normally, I am too groggy. But it just happened so naturally. It blesses my day and I give thanks for the challenges. Love you too bother.” Justin
When Alfredo (above) was given a JESUS tract and had God’s Word spoken to him, he was on the phone. He hung up and came and grabbed me as I was walking away. We spent ample time together and he was excited that you would be lifting him in prayer. He was very open and honest and asked me how he would be able to stop drinking many beers daily. In return I preached Jesus to him and that when he repents and receives Jesus, he is going to be forgiven of his sins and born again, a new creature in Christ and that all old things will pass away. He was instructed to repent and receive Jesus as I pointed to the prayer on the back of the JESUS tract (oracion). He was also shown the Reina Valera Bible 1960 to download onto his phone. He has my number and as soon as he texts me back he will be sent the Born Again book in Spanish and receive biblical ministry. Thank you for lifting this dear man in prayer. The honesty of the people of Mexico is so very refreshing!
God loves the Mexican people. Jesus died for them.
Thank you for pausing to pray for the people of Mexico.
Here’s beloved Martha who recently received ministry – as a direct result of your prayer and support.
Spanish
Is your life fruitful for Christ?
Or is it being wasted? John 15
Bibles and ministry books going out weekly across the nation. Lives being changed. Prayers coveted.
Now supporting a missionary in the Philippines….. Jesus tract in Tagolog etc.
You’re working to pay bills but are you fruitful for Jesus? John 15
Below are message from 2 men here in Mexico who have been ministered to and are continuing to receive God’s Word weekly:
“I am interested in knowing God and reading the Bible.” Julio
“Hi Todd. Greetings. Thanks for the Bible messages.” Carlos
IF you want to have a ‘field day’ adventure of evangelising lost souls, 90% of which are just waiting to be told about Jesus….. perhaps you may wish to pray and ask God if He’d have you move south to Mexico. A blessing. Psalms 37:23, right?
God be praised for your prayers and support. HE is doing a work in the hearts of the people of Mexico.
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Articles
The Purpose of Elders in Christ’s Body [podcast]
There is no more important work transpiring in the earth today than the work of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Matthew 9:35-38; 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6, etc.).
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” Hebrews 13:20-21
In short, the authentic under-shepherd ordained of Jesus Himself (John 15:16), will give up his life in this fleeting world for the sheep of Christ – just as the Great Shepherd of the sheep did on the cross. Such a divinely called-out man, will teach only God’s pure Word and watch for the souls of the LORD’s people (Hebrews 13:7, 17). He will take up the cross – live the crucified life – and therefore ministry will not be about them but rather about Jesus and His beloved sheep for whom He shed His blood and is soon returning (Philippians 3:17-21).
Also in Hebrews 13 …. The true elder of Christ will, according to Hebrews 13, do two things:
- Speak the pure Word of God to you and get you into it:
“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation (their way of life).” Hebrews 13:7
2. Will in the fear of God pray for and “watch for your soul.”
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” Hebrews 13:17
In review, just WHAT are the earmark fruits of true under-shepherds as opposed to the many wolves among us?
- True under shepherds relentlessly teach God’s Word – “who have spoken unto you the word of God.” (Hebrews 13:7)
- They are there for you! – “they watch for your souls.” (Hebrews 13:7)
IF they aren’t preaching God’s pure Word to you, fearing God, not you…. and watching for your eternal soul, they are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Repent and run to Jesus beloved.
Let me add that if they are using a fake “bible” instead of the King James Bible, that should be a clue to the darkness they walk in (Matthew 7:16, 20).
Elders are ordained of God and yet never to take His place nor to negate our own personal responsibility to seek God daily for ourselves. Yet, we do not need a preacher. Why? – because we each have a Bible. Read it. We don’t need a preacher to tell us what the Bible says! Read it for yourself, learning of the LORD yourself. Today is your day to take personal responsibility to seek God for yourself! Stop depending on a preacher or preachers. Devour God’s Word daily. Jesus taught personal responsibility and the essential nature of it when He said “Take heed to yourselves” (Luke 21:34-36) …… Paul instructed Timothy to “Study” the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).
Today we have all around us church-goers who are not possessed with a heart after God, do not diligently study and read and live out Christ’s Word. This lukewarm, world-loving fruit clearly reveals the prophesied priesthood of wolves (1 Chronicles 16:11; Psalms 27:4, 8; Matthew 24:11; Acts 13:22; 2 Timothy 3:13; 1 John 4:1, etc.). Until a pastor has provoke you to get into God’s Word for yourself, to seeking His holy face daily in prayer, he has failed. If has has diligently, biblically sought to do these essentials, and people have refused God’s Word, refused to seek His holy face continually, the blood is off of his hands (Ezekiel 3:18-20).
“When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” Ezekiel 3:18-20
When you check the fruit of a fellowship, check, discern if the individual saints are vibrant in Christ, diligently seeking His holy face, in His Word, living a life of prayer, denying self, taking up the cross daily, and following Jesus. This sounds like what we see of the earliest saints in the book of Acts, right? Boom. Remember how Peter preached and 8,000 were saved and how the Berean believers put Paul’s teaching to the Scriptural test? (Acts 2-4; 17:10-11, etc.).
Sadly, usually you see a bunch of people who are proud to be a member of a church with none of the biblical fruit list above.
The apostle Paul kept a close watch on those he oversaw.
“For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.” 1 Thessalonians 3:5
Having a physical “church” building makes no mere man, no supposed elder, an official representative of Heaven. Feeding the sheep of Christ with His pure Word and equipping them “for the work of the ministry” is the mark of a true under-shepherd of Christ (John 21:15-17; Ephesians 4:11-12, etc.). Discern. Beware. Inspect the fruit. Jesus nor any of His holy apostles collected a penny to build a building called “church.” No, they went to the people – to serve them instead of having the people come to them.
Let’s test that…. How many people do you personally know who are good church members, Sunday morning church attenders, and ALSO true, daily disciples whom God is using everywhere they go? Think about that…. How many true disciples of Jesus do you know who are involved in a Sunday morning church program? If you personally know even one true disciple, that’s a miracle and in spite of his attendance at the Sunday morning circus called “church.”
Unlike Christ’s apostle Paul, most in leadership today foster in their prey a dependence on THEM and their church business instead of prayerfully, biblically exhorting people to depend on Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:29-2:5).
Like Christ’s apostle Paul, the true elder labors relentlessly to see you grounded in Christ – not in him or his ministry or church, but in CHRIST! Listen closely:
“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.” Colossians 2:6-7
It simply doesn’t matter what else he’s doing, if any minister is not prayerfully, biblically, perpetually rooting and grounding you in Christ, he’s a fraud. Run.
Like Jesus and His holy apostle Paul, part of grounding you ever more deeper in Christ, is warning you to “beware” of the “many false prophets.” (Matthew 24:11)
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:” Colossians 2:8-10
SO, he’s not exhorting and admonishing you to seek and know the LORD in an ever deepening fashion? He’s not equipping, maturing you “for the work of the ministry” and yet you still consider him one of the LORD’s under-shepherds? He’s not getting YOU into the Word (2 Timothy 2:15) for yourself? That’s a false leader who is entertaining the goats instead of feeding and equipping the saints! Run! (See Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6, etc.)
False leaders divert the attention, the heart affections, the resources, and the energy of God’s people away from Christ and simple obedience to His Great Commission mandate. YOU are personally responsible! Waste is rampant! If you support, “bid God speed” (2 John 7-11) to a false leader, false ministry, then you will perish with them!
The divine purpose for elders is not to dominate nor entertain the LORD’s sheep but rather to help their joy in Christ! Get to know this verse saints:
“Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.” 2 Corinthians 1:24
There is the citing of elders in the Word and their divine purpose – to humbly serve God by helping His sheep grow in the knowledge and grace of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6).
Christ’s apostle Paul desired the “perfection” (maturity in Christ) of the people of God (Ephesians 4:11-15).
“For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.” 2 Corinthians 13:9
Like Apollos, Elders among God’s people must remain teachable to God’s Word and simply and only teach and preach his word (Proverbs 9:9; Acts 18:26). Elders true to the LORD act on his behalf and never out of a personal agenda for self gain (2 Corinthians 3:5; 4:5, etc.). They live the crucified life (Galatians 2:20).
We are to humble ourselves like Apollos did and learn the way of our God more perfectly from each other, via God’s Word – as Apollos learned it more fully from Aquila and Priscilla (Acts 18:24-28).
Beloved Apollos was a very effective, anointed communicator of God’s Word and yet, was in need of maturing, of being perfected. So, God sent to him an elder and his wife, Aquila and Priscilla. Apollos humbly received the LORD’s elders and His grace to grow in Christ:
“And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” Acts 18:24-26
The vast majority of “churches” that meet in “church buildings” are simply and merely conducting “church services” where they entertain their prey. They are not equipping the saints for the work of the ministry and therefore discerned as being counterfeit (Ephesians 4:11-13). If they were, there would be salty disciples in their midst who go forth to minister Christ’s kingdom blessings wherever they go. Not even a trace of this transpiring in the apostate modern church world. Run. Run. Run.
The Purpose of Kingdom Elders:
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting (equipping, maturing) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-12
Philip Lye writes: “Paul says in Ephesians 4, that he gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. He expressly says these people are given to mature the saints, to equip them for their ministry and growth in Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that many false prophets and messiahs will arise deceiving many. They are simply functions that God has given and not titles which the proud use to strut about like a peacock. Most of these people that I have met (and I have seen a lot of famous ones) are false, proud and arrogant and not servants of the the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen humble genuine ones who move mightily in truth, calling people to repentance and right relationship with Jesus and a demonstration of genuine miracles and wonders. They are to be genuine servants to God’s people.”
VIEW this following verse from Solomon’s day in light of our calling and work till Christ returns:
“Now all the work of Solomon was prepared unto the day of the foundation of the house of the LORD, and until it was finished. So the house of the LORD was perfected.” 2 Chronicles 8:16
Let’s read a larger portion of this important passage in Ephesians 4. God fearing under-shepherds must prayerfully labor for and be intent upon seeing God’s people grow in the grace of Christ to the full stature of maturity He has ordained!
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-15
The Error of Using Titles in the Modern Church World
God sovereignly and exclusively ordained MEN to feed, lead, and equip His saints (Ephesians 4:8-11). Women are called to and seen doing many ministry functions in the New Testament but never as a leader in a position specifically designated in Scripture for men.
Repent. The American “church” is a catastrophe of spineless moral-coward Ahabs who’ve allowed, suffered women to lead, and the fall out is incalculable (Revelation 2:20-24).
GOD’s men must never allow women to lead where they (men) are called to lead (1 Timothy 2:12; 3:2; Revelation 2:20-24).
To put yourself under the ministry of a woman who is acting as an elder among God’s people, is to defy Christ, and to agree with Christ’s arch enemy and his Jezebels and to bring severe destruction on the people of God (1 Timothy 2:12; 3:2; Revelation 2:20-24).
JUST because a woman can run her mouth and even genuinely have a gift of the Spirit DOES NOT mean she’s an elder in the body of Christ – which is divinely reserved non-negotiably for men, male elders (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 3:2). | Beware of Scripture-Twisting Jezebels
We must humbly confess before our LORD and God that we have nothing and are nothing without Him!
“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” John 15:5
God can use us in spite of having a seminary or Bible college background…. If we will truly denounce it, lay it all down, and truly submit to Him – just like Paul did (Philippians 3). Otherwise we will join the epidemic of false prophets who build their own kingdoms in this fleeting life and spend eternity in hell (2 Peter 2:1-3). Paul counted his “higher education” as “dung” to know and serve Christ (Philippians 3).
BIBLICALLY SPEAKING, BY DEFINITION, ELDERS ARE NOT SEMINARIANS (UNLESS THEY’VE DENOUNCED SUCH) BUT RATHER PROVEN MEN OF GOD WHO HAVE WALKED WITH CHRIST FOR SOME TIME AND ARE SEASONED IN DOCTRINE AND GODLY CHARACTER AND ABLE TO HELP ASSIST OTHER BELIEVERS GROW IN GRACE (Philippians 3).
In part, we can be transformed in our thinking/perspective of what leaders are seen to be in the apostate modern church vs the biblical definition of an elder which is a humble servant with sound doctrine and a godly life (1 Timothy 3; 2 Timothy 3:10; Titus 1-2, etc.).
Christ’s kingdom ordination is not like the ordinations of many denominations….. To ordain seems to mean to recognize the work of GOD in a man’s life and to set him forth into ministry as by the leading of the Spirit of God.
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” John 15:16
ORDAIN
G5087
τίθημι
tithēmi
tith’-ay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): – + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.
Total KJV occurrences: 96
“Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.” Acts 13:1-3
Denominations of mere men set their elders forth to do THEIR bidding, to perpetuate their own cause and existence, to build their false church businesse$. God fearing assemblies of the saints simply recognize Christ’s work in a man and prayerfully send him forth to do GOD’s work. They worship and exalt Christ whole heartedly!
MINISTRY is about feeding sheep, not entertaining goats (John 21:15-17). So, when you see a “minister” entertaining, you know he himself is a goat (1 Corinthians 1:29-2:5).
What True Elders Teach
“For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.” 2 Corinthians 4:5
THERE is nothing good in us except Christ. We are not featured but JESUS is. “We preach CHRIST crucified” (1 Cor 1:23). All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and HE is the One and only righteous Redeemer whom we communicate to others (1 Cor 9:16; Rom 7:18 etc.).
Jesus’ true disciples are crucified vessels who preach with His authority, unlike the lame leaders we have today (Matthew 7:28-29). True Gospel preaching rocks the world of those who hear it – it never coddles people in their sin. That’s the work of wolves! Beware!
Godly Elders Teach God’s People to Discern
“And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.” Ezekiel 44:23
Why don’t some leaders teach discernment?
“Anyone that profits off of you being blind, will never teach you or inspire you to see.” unknown
Any man in leadership who doesn’t warn you of false prophets as did Christ and His apostles, is a wolf who does not want you to see who he truly is.
God’s people are to continue to learn to discern – to test, to weigh all things against Holy Scripture. Ungodly elders have the “I said it so it’s true” notion. Or the “We’ve always taught that” or “That’s what we believe” philosophy. Not. What saith the Scriptures is what every true follower of Jesus asks, as he searches God’s Word to ascertain truth. Every student of Christ should become extremely familiar with Acts 17:10-11.
QUESTION RECEIVED:
“I am curious as to how one man is considered the other’s elder? Do they attend the same church gathering thus, he is a church elder or is it through willful submission of the younger as an understudy or simply due to the fact that one man is older?”
REPLY:
Great question brother. Elder, biblically seems to mean older and more seasoned in God’s Word, having walked with the LORD longer. Two views come to mind: 1. The organic body of Christ, the kingdom relationships we have, where there appear men in our lives who are seasoned and there’s an automatic elder/young relationship (that’s how it is here)… and 2. Where a person attends a church group and they have their elder in a more organized fashion as you mentioned…. that help?
Nothing brings definition to this like God’s Word as you know…. and notice how it begins with “The elders which are AMONG you”….
“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:” 1 Peter 5:1-6
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