TROUBLING QUOTES FROM CHRIST-DENYING,
“EMERGING CHURCH” LEADERS
Bastion for Spineless Moral Cowards
“My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.” Psalms 89:34
The so-called emergent or emerging church is a bunch of moral pansies who refuse to believe, embrace, and to obey the absolute truth given to us in God’s written Word. These moral cowards want to converse about it or explore it, but God forbid that anyone get literal or absolute. They stand for nothing except their own self-serving agenda which is pure rebellion against God. They are definitely ‘light in the loafers’ as the saying goes. Oh, and you can tell them I said so!
***Every Emergent Church leader I’ve ever heard speak sounded and seemed effeminate, and so I call them the ECP’s which stands for Emergent Church Pansies. Not only are they physically and verbally effeminate, their vague, questioning methods are sissy-fied. They are slick, slimy, and and spineless as they stand for nothing. The Bible tells us that effeminacy is a sin that will send one to hell (1 Corinthians 6:9). God created MEN to be masculine and therefore for a man to manifest feminine qualities either morally or physically, is an abomination to Him.
No apology for pointing out the obvious feminine nature of these guys. I never said they are gay but pointed out that they ARE “effeminate” which is a Bible word and a sin (1 Cor. 6:9). It would not be a surprise if it comes out that some of them are gay. A man doesn’t have to be manifestly a sodomite. God says if a man is even “effeminate” that he is hell bound, period (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
These guys are blinded due to the rejection of the LORD who must be approached on HIS terms and no other. He gave us HIS terms in HIS Word which these guys reject as divine, final authority.
“And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?” Luke 6:39
They sound like reasonable people while they are reasoning away non-negotiable, divine truth. Who shall we follow?
These godless wolves prey upon young people who are naive but don’t know it yet. They prey upon the younger generation because they are easily beguiled.
Any leader or local church connected with emergent church leaders via their books, CDs, DVDs, radio programs, websites, or otherwise, should also be marked as a vile wolf who has insidiously crept into the church to deceive and lead to damnation precious souls! There IS a conspiracy among false leaders! Wolves operate in packs. Wake up or perish! Be not ignorant, gullible, stupid, or naive or you will perish!
“Conspiracy” is not a theory but rather a divine revelation! “Conspiracy” is a divinely-given truth, a reality, and a fact of life:
“There is a CONSPIRACY of her prophets (apostate leaders) in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. 26Her priests (leaders) have violated my law (Word), and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. 27Her princes (leaders) in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to DESTROY SOULS, to get dishonest gain (greed mongering hirelings).” Ezekiel 22:25-27
Virtually all new “churches” such as community churches, emergent or emerging churches, communal fellowships, seeker-friendly cult churches, all missional churches, and otherwise are totally apostate. They are led by spineless moral cowards who call themselves pastors but have rejected the divine revelation of Jesus Christ and His truth given us in Holy Scripture. These are the wolves Christ and His apostles so often warned us about. Beware!
Quotes from the Vile Emergent Wolves
“We do not think this [Emerging Church Movement] is about changing your worship service. We do not think this is about…how you structure your church staff. This is actually about changing theology. This is about our belief that theology changes. The message of the gospel changes. It’s not just the method that changes.” –Tony Jones (“A New Theology for a New World.” A workshop for the 2004 Emergent Convention in San Diego)
“I must add, though, that I don’t believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many (not all!) circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts.” –Brian McLaren
“I now believe that GLBTQ [Gay, Lesbian, Bisexuals, Transgender, and Queers] can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (as least as much as any of us can!), and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state.” –Tony Jones
“I am not sure I believe in God exclusively as a person anymore either…. I now incorporate a pantheistic view, which basically means that God is ‘in all,’ alongside my creedal view of God as Father, Son, and Spirit.” –Spencer Burke (A Heretics Guide to Eternity, p. 195)
“I don’t think we’ve got the gospel right yet….I don’t think the liberals have it right. But I don’t think we have it right either. None of us has arrived at orthodoxy.” –Brian McLaren
“God is going to judge the life and repair, and restore and heal the life of everybody in the same way.” –Doug Pagitt (in an interview with Todd Friel on Way of the Master Radio)
“Ask me if Christianity (my version of it, yours, the Pope’s, whoever’s) is orthodox, meaning true, and here’s my honest answer: a little, but not yet…To be a Christian in a generously orthodox way is not to claim to have the truth captured, stuffed, and mounted on the wall…But we keep seeking.” –Brian McLaren (A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 333)
“The Christian faith is mysterious to the core. It is about things and beings that ultimately can’t be put into words. Language fails. And if we do definitively put God into words, we have at that very moment made God something God is not” –Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, p. 32)
“Ultimately, I hope Jesus will save Buddhism, Islam and every other religion, including the Christian religion, which often seems to need saving about as much as any other religion does.” –Brian McLaren
“God has an incredibly high view of people. God believes that people are capable of amazing things. I have been told that I need to believe in Jesus. Which is a good thing. But what I am learning is that Jesus believes in me. I have been told that I need to have faith in God. Which is a good thing. But what I am learning is that God has faith in me.” –Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, p. 134)
“Stop looking for some objective Truth that is available when we delve into the text of the Bible.” –Tony Jones
“What we know means nothing. What we live means everything.” –Barry Taylor (from a talk at Capo Beach Calvary in San Juan Capistrano, California). (In response to this, contrast Taylor’s words with Jesus’ in John 8:32 and Paul’s pattern of starting off with doctrine in his letters to the Romans, Ephesians and Colossians before talking about how to live. Right actions follow right beliefs. That is the pattern set up in the Bible).
“The church has been preoccupied with the question, “What happens to your soul after you die?” As if the reason for Jesus coming can be summed up in, “Jesus is trying to help get more souls into heaven, as opposed to hell, after they die.” I just think a fair reading of the Gospels blows that out of the water. I don’t think that the entire message and life of Jesus can be boiled down to that bottom line.” –Brian McLaren
“Emergent doesn’t have a position on absolute truth, or on anything for that matter. Do you show up at a dinner party with your neighbors and ask, ‘What’s this dinner party’s position on absolute truth?’ No, you don’t, because it’s a non-sensical question.” –Tony Jones
“Well, for our community, this [living an environmentally conscious life] isn’t rooted in the fact that it’s gaining steam in popular culture. It’s always been rooted in the very nature of God. The central Hebrew prayer, Deuteronomy 6, says, “Hear O Israel the Lord your God, the Lord is One,” so we live with awareness that all of reality is one. [How does he get that from this passage? He sounds like a pantheist.] We are connected with all things everywhere, and I would argue that in the last couple hundred years, disconnection has been the dominant way people have understood reality. And the Church has contributed to that disconnection by preaching horrible messages about being left behind and that this place is going to burn [Uh, yeah read 2 Peter 3:7ff Rob.]–absolutely toxic messages that are against the teachings of Scripture, which state that we are connected to God, we are connected to the earth, we are connected to each other. When any of those connections fracture, the whole thing starts to fall apart. Your relationship with God is tied into your relationship with the soil. Go back to Genesis.” –Rob Bell (Relevant Magazine, “Rob Bell Tells it like it is,” January/February edition, 2008)
“Let me offer 10 suggestions for reclaiming the Bible for contemporary readers…Drop Any Affair You May Have with Certainty” –Brian McLaren (Adventures in Missing the Point, p. 81-84)
“We should consider the possibility that many, and perhaps even all of Jesus’ hell-fire or end-of-the-universe statements refer not to postmortem [after death] judgment but to the very historic consequences of rejecting his kingdom message of reconciliation and peacemaking. The destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 67-70 seems to many people to fulfill much of what we have traditionally understood as hell. ” –Brian McLaren
“For Jesus, heaven and hell were present realities. Ways of living we can enter into here and now. He talked very little of the life beyond this one…” –Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, p. 147)
“When I say I’m a universalist, what I really mean is that I don’t believe you have to convert to any particular religion to find God. A I see it, God finds us, and it has nothing to do with subscribing to any particular religious view.” –Spencer Burke (A Heretic’s Guide to Eternity, p. 197)
“I’m writing with the assumption that most of you who are reading this book have concluded what I have: Preaching doesn’t work…preaching, as we know it, is a tragically broken endeavor….The value of our practices—including preaching—ought to be judged by their effects on our communities and the ways in which they help us move toward life with God.” –Doug Pagitt (Preaching Re-Imagined, p. 18, 19, 28)
“[In Yoga] it’s not how flexible you are, it’s not whether you can do the poses, it’s not how much you can bend yourself, it’s can you keep your breath [breathes in and out] consistent [breathes out] through whatever you are doing. And the Yoga Masters say this is how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God. Is it’s your breath being consistent. It’s your connection with God regardless of the pose you find yourself in. That’s integrating the divine into the daily.” –Rob Bell (transcribed from his sermon on breathing)
“What’s more, I’m not sure I believe in God exclusively as a person anymore either….I now incorporate a pantheist view, which basically means that God is ‘in all,’ alongside my creedal view of God as Father, Son, and Spirit….As I see it, we are in God, here on earth. This is how our relationship is defined. God does not just have to be reached up to; he is hear as the surrounding Spirit.” –Spencer Burke (A Heretic’s Guide to Eternity, p. 195)
“…my point in all this is that the doctrine of the Trinity is still on the table. Some people, it seems to me, would like for us to no longer debate certain ‘sacred’ doctrines — the Trinity, the nature of Christ, the nature of scripture, the nature of marriage etc. And these persons tend to get very jumpy when emergent-types discuss these sacred doctrines, especially in books and at conferences that are being taped. ‘This is dangerous,’ they say.” –Tony Jones
“Repentance is what happens when your eyes are opened and you see what has already been done. ‘I’ve missed it, and now I see it’.” –Rob Bell
“Anytime someone makes you feel guilty about how you are living, that is part of the old system (pre-Christ).” –Rob Bell
“And so these first Christians passed on the faith to the next generation who passed it on to the next generation who passed it on to the next generation until it got to us. Here. Today. Those who follow Jesus and belong to his church. And now it is our turn. It is our turn to step up and take responsibility for who the church is going to be for a new generation. It is our turn to redefine and reshape and dream it all up again” –Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, p. 164)
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My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
By Jason Carlson
The growing influence of the so-called emergent church movement has generated much interest and debate in recent times. As a columnist for the Christian Worldview Network, people often ask me for my take on the emergent church movement. Thus, the purpose of this article is simply to offer my humble perspective on the emergent church movement, based upon my unique firsthand interactions with many of its leaders, many of whom I count as friends in-spite of my disagreements with them.
My initial entrance into the emergent church conversation came about six years ago while I was a student in seminary. One of the key figures in Emergent, the official title of the organization that is the primary voice for the emergent church movement, Doug Pagitt (Pastor of Solomon’s Porch in Minneapolis), is a close friend of mine. Doug had a profound influence on my life during his time as my youth pastor when I was in high school. Between my years in youth group and my entrance into seminary, Doug became intimately involved with many of the key movers and shakers who would eventually form the organization, or “generative friendship” as they call it, which is now Emergent. During these formative years of Emergent, actually back then it was called The Terra Nova Project, Doug invited me to many of the early gatherings of this group, it was at these events where I was introduced to and spent much time with people like Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, Pagitt and others.
During my interactions with my friends from Emergent, I was challenged both intellectually and spiritually through what I encountered, and I was really forced to wrestle with what I believe and hold dear. Over the course of about three years of fairly regular interaction with members of Emergent and participation in many of their gatherings and events, I became increasingly concerned over what I believe are serious deviations from biblical truth taking place within the Emergent “conversation” (how they refer to the movement). Many other commentators have drawn attention to these dangers within Emergent, but here are some of the key errors that I observed, errors that eventually led to my disengagement with the movement:
– A highly ambiguous handling of truth.
– A desire to be so inclusive and tolerant that there is virtually no sense of biblical discernment in terms of recognizing and labeling false beliefs, practices, or lifestyles.
– A quasi-universalistic view of salvation.
– A lack of a proper appreciation for biblical authority over and against personal experience or revelation.
– Openness to pagan religious practices like Hindu Yoga and incorporating them into the Christian life and Christian worship.
– Openly questioning the relevance of key historical biblical doctrines such as the Trinity.
– An uncritically open embrace of the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
– An unbridled cynicism towards conservative evangelicalism and fundamentalism.
– A reading of scripture that is heavily prejudiced towards a social gospel understanding.
– Little or no talk of evangelism or saving lost souls.
– A salvation by osmosis mentality, where if you hangout with us long enough you’re in.
– And many other things that I won’t get into…
Needless to say, today I no longer actively participate in the Emergent conversation. While I do maintain my friendships with many people involved in Emergent, I cannot openly participate in or support this movement due to my spirit’s uneasiness with the errors I listed above. I am not ashamed to call the people I mentioned above my friends, but friends don’t always have to agree; and sometimes the best thing a friend can do is to point out the error in the other’s ways. So, for now you could call me a friendly critic of Emergent.
How did I make it out of my time in Emergent to return to a solid Christian worldview? I owe it all to my parents who raised me with a deep appreciation and respect for God’s word and the truth it reveals. For as far back as I can remember, my parent’s trained me in a biblical Christian worldview. I was taught from a very young age to test all things by God’s word and I was regularly exposed to the writings and teachings of great Christian apologists and theologians like Josh McDowell, Norman Geisler, Ken Ham, and Walter Martin. Through reading solid Christian scholars and attending numerous high quality Christian worldview-training conferences, like Worldview Weekend, I was equipped with the tools I would need later in life to discern truth from error.
Parents, you cannot take lightly the influence that a godly, biblically based upbringing can have on your children! Each generation will be faced with their share of trials, tribulations, and errors which threaten the integrity of the church, but when our young people are raised up with a firm foundation in God’s truth, they will be able to discern truth from error and will have the tools they’ll need to overcome any challenge to their faith.
If you would like more information on Emergent and the emergent church movement from a solid biblical perspective, I would highly recommend D.A. Carson’s excellent book, Becoming Conversant with the Emergent Church.
“Throwing Our Future Church Leaders to the Wolves”
Jim Brown
An estimated 25,000-30,000 young people are expected to attend “Student Life” events with their church youth groups this year in twelve different locations across the U-S. Headlining the 2006 tour are worship leader Charlie Hall, the drama team “All Things to All People” and Los Angeles pastor and author Erwin McManus, a leader in the Emergent Church movement.
But before you pay to send your teenager off to one of the Student Life conferences, be aware that Emergent leaders such as McManus, Leonard Sweet, Andy Crouch, Brian McLaren, and others are pushing liberal theology under the guise of “postmodern” Christianity. The movement assails absolute truth, the inerrancy of Scripture and justification by faith in Jesus Christ alone, and instead embraces spiritual relativism and mysticism. Sound like something you want your son or daughter dabbling in? This “New Kind of Christianity,” as McLaren calls it, is distorting the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Albert Mohler has said “When it comes to issues such as the exclusivity of the gospel, the identity of Jesus Christ as both fully human and fully divine, the authoritative character of Scripture as written revelation, and the clear teaching of Scripture concerning issues such as homosexuality, this movement simply refuses to answer the questions.” Yet, the movement continues to gain traction among undiscerning believers young and old, as well critics of traditional evangelicalism.
In an interview with www.freshministry.org, McManus was asked what advice he would give preachers that want to minister in the postmodern age. He responded by saying, “First, The sermons that are changing the world are the ones where the pastor is real–sharing his journey with the congregation. Second, stop preaching sermons and start telling stories. Third, Break through the pressure to be a great preacher and become a great leader.” In other words, away with sound doctrine if it’s not culturally relevant or entertaining to your audience.
Perhaps more troubling, McManus endorsed Gregory Boyd’s book “Is God to Blame.” Boyd is a leading proponent of open theism, which denies God knows all of the future. In the book, Boyd argues that Almighty God suffers from self-imposed limits on His power. At the very least, it’s apparent McManus is willing to tolerate a heretical view that undermines the doctrine of Christ’s Atonement and the authority of Scripture.
One has to question why Student Life would feature McManus at its popular conferences and why any youth pastor would wittingly allow his youth group to sit under an Emergent pastor’s teaching. I think the answer can be found in II Timothy 4:3-4: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Christian young people need sound doctrine to grow in Christ and reach a lost world for Jesus, not a “postmodern” or culturally relevant gospel.
LINKS EXPOSING THE EMERGENT CHURCH MOVEMENT:
The Church is Changing, What is Emerging?
Emergent Church Leaders: Wolves in Shepherds’ Clothing!
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/11/emergent_church_3.html
http://www.erwm.com/TheNewSpiritualFormation.htm
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/EmergingChurch.htm
http://www.studentlifetour.com/index.php
Jim Brown is an education reporter for American Family Radio News. His stories appear frequently at www.agapepress.org and other Christian websites. He can be contacted at jimbrown@afa.net.
ROB BELL is a WOLF! Marked!
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From Apprising.org
Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism
This time we live in is marred by the false philosophy of postmodernism, which is more deeply entrenched within the gates of Christendom than most realize. Circa 2000 mainstream evangelicalism made the ill-fated decision to embrace the sinfully ecumenical neo-liberal cult operating within the Emerging Church aka the Emergent Church.
Sadly, the EC—headed by, among others, its trinity of apostates, Living Spiritual Teacher and EC guru Brian McLaren, universalist Emerging Church pastor Doug Pagitt, and his friend Dr. Tony Jones, the progressive “theologian in residence” at Solomon’s Porch—would prove to be a Trojan Horse literally filled with heresy.
One of its most pernicious teachings was corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), Roman Catholic mysticism “discovered” by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster, now spread within the heart of evangelicalism as supposed Spiritual Formation with an assist from his spiritual twin Dallas Willard,
This spurious CSM was a core doctrine in the EC right from its slithering into the mainstream circa 2000. In fact, this was all a part of the plan of Druckerite Leadership Network to move away from sola Scriptura to man-centered dominionist theology. This CSM has horribly corrupted the younger sectors of the visible church.
No longer do they practice the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura; instead, so-called “spiritual disciplines” of CSM have convinced them they are receiving direct revelations from God. From years of studying mystics of all stripes I can tell you their perceived revelations then trump the texts of Holy Scripture for them.
In other words, rather than testing these experiences by God’s Word, now these practitioners of CSM are instead using their feelings to interpret the Bible through what they think God is saying. I’m telling you, the tragic fact is, the mainstream of professing Christendom is rapidly devolving into all kinds of silly superstitions.
Abiding
Jesus’ Counsel to the Lukewarm [podcast]
Laodicea: How Jesus Instructs the Backslidden to be Restored
Jesus’ Letter to the Church at Laodicea
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
The cross, the crucified life is the cure to the curse of sin—sin dominating our lives.
Romans 6
Inflation is part of the judgment of God upon a wicked people, nation. We see such in Sodom and in Laodicea (Ezekiel 16:49-59; Romans 1; Revelaton 3:14-22).
“It appears that in this scarcity each might be able to obtain a bare subsistence by his daily labor; but a man could not, in such cases, provide for a family.” Adam Clarke
Your money doesn’t go far….. inflation
“Revelation 6 describes the opening of the first six seals, which represent God’s judgment, often called the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. The third seal, broken by a “black horse,” is interpreted to show hyper-inflation and famine, where a day’s wage (a denarius) buys only a quart of wheat. The judgment includes a command to preserve the oil and wine, which some interpret as luxury goods, while essential food becomes scarce and expensive.”
“6:5, 6 In obedience to the third living creature, a rider holding a set of scales came forth on a black horse. This represents famine, which often follows war. A voice in the middle of the four living creatures announced that wheat and barley were being sold at prohibitive prices. The scales were used to weigh the rationed grain and were thus a symbol of famine. The expression do not harm the oil and the wine is difficult. Some say that these were the food of the poor. If they were staple items, then they must be protected in order to preserve life. It seems more likely, however, that the luxury items of the rich are contemplated here: historically, even in famine the rich can get some luxuries.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
The only thing needed to go to hell is to not be on fire for Jesus—to be “lukewarm” (Revelation 3:15-16).
Jesus instructed the Laodicean church… to obtain, to “buy of me….
“3:18 The people were counseled to buy from the Lord gold refined in the fire. This may mean divine righteousness, which is bought without money or price (Isa_55:1) but received as a gift through faith in the Lord Jesus. Or it may mean genuine faith, which when tested in the fire, results in praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ (1Pe_1:7).
Also the people were counseled to buy white garments, that is, practical righteousness in everyday life. And they should anoint their eyes with eye salve, that is, gain true spiritual vision through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. This counsel was especially appropriate, since Laodicea was known as a center for banking, textiles, and medicines—especially eye salve.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
“Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee – O fallen and deceived soul, hear Jesus! Thy case is not hopeless. Buy of me.
Gold tried in the fire – Come and receive from me, without money and without price, faith that shall stand in every trial: so gold tried in the fire is here understood. But it may mean pure and undefiled religion, or that grace or Divine influence which produces it, which is more valuable to the soul than the purest gold to the body. They had before imaginary riches; this alone can make them truly rich.
White raiment – Holiness of heart and life.
Anoint thine eyes – Pray for, that ye may receive, the enlightening influences of my Spirit, that ye may be convinced of your true state, and see where your help lies.” Adam Clarke
Warning
“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” Revelation 16:15
Coming forth as Purified Gold
“But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.” Job 23:10
To “come forth as gold” refers to the finished product, where gold has been purified of all its impurities.
“That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:” 1 Peter 1:7
“The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts.” Proverbs 17:3
Idolatry is Sin
Putting, having anything or anyone before Christ in our lives is the soul damning sin of idolatry. Such a person has rejected Christ for something, anything else.
One such idol, one such cause today is patriotism for one’s earthly country. See Hebrews 11:14-16.
SO, you are fighting to save America (impossible) and not see souls saved for and by Jesus? Yet you claim to be following Christ who said “I MUST be about my Father’s business”? See Luke 2:49. You are deceived and in need of repentance before it’s too late. You left your “first love” and are in sin, in darkness (Revelation 2:4-5).
“And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.” Daniel 11:32-35
“Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:10
PRAYER: Father in Jesus’ name, please grant to my heart Your gift of repentance and the deep desire to have Your righteousness, to not be deceived by sin, Satan, or counterfeits and false teachers. Please forgive all my sins afresh, here and now by Your precious blood LORD Jesus. Unite my heart to fear Your name. Fill me with Your Holy Ghost and use me LORD. In Jesus’ name, amen.
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Articles
Tozer: The Cross
The Old Rugged Vs. the New Nerf Cross
A.W. Tozer: “The old cross is a symbol of death. God salvages the individual by liquidating him and then raising him again in newness of life. God offers life, but not an improved old life. The life He offers is life out of death. It always stands at the far side of the cross.”
A.W. Tozer: “Why do we build our churches upon human flesh? For we teach men not to die with Christ but to live in the strength of their dying manhood… If I see aright, the cross of popular evangelicalism is not the cross of the New Testament. It is, rather, a new bright ornament upon the bosom of a self-assured and carnal Christianity. The old cross slew men; the new cross entertains them. The old cross condemned; the new cross amuses. The old cross destroyed confidence in the flesh; the new cross encourages it.”
A.W. Tozer: “There must be a work of God in destruction before we are free. We must invite the cross to do its deadly work within us. We must bring our self-sins to the cross of judgment.”
A.W. Tozer: “All unannounced, and almost undetected, there has come in modern times a new cross into popular evangelical circles… The old cross would have no truck with the world. For Adam’s proud flesh it meant the end of the journey. The new cross, if understood aright, is the source of oceans of good clean fun and innocent enjoyment. It lets Adam live without interference. His life motivation is unchanged; he still lives for his own pleasure.
“That this world is a playground rather than a battleground has now been accepted in practice by the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians. They are facing both ways, enjoying Christ and the world too.”
A.W. Tozer: “The new cross does not slay the sinner, it redirects him. It gears him into a cleaner and jollier way of living and saves his self-respect… Christ calls men to carry a cross; we call them to have fun in His name… We want to be saved but we insist Christ do all the dying. No cross for us, no dethronement, no dying. We remain king within the little kingdom of Mansoul and wear our tinsel crown with all the pride of a Caesar; but we doom ourselves to shadows and weakness and spiritual sterility.”
A.W. Tozer: “The man who is crucified is facing only one direction… He [cannot] look back. The crucified man on the cross is looking only one direction and that is the direction of God, and Christ and the Holy Ghost… The man on the cross… has no further plans of his own… Somebody else made his plans for him, and when they nailed him up there all his plans disappeared… When you go out to die on the cross you bid good-bye–you are not going back!
“If we would preach more of this and stop trying to make the Christian life so easy it’s contemptible–we would have more converts that would last. Get a man converted who knows that if he joins Jesus Christ he’s finished, and that while he’s going to come up and live anew, as far as this world is concerned he is not going back–then you have a real Christian indeed.”
A.W. Tozer: “Our uncrucified flesh will rob us of purity of heart, Christ-likeness of character, spiritual insight, fruitfulness; and more than all, it will hide from us the vision of God’s face, that vision which has been the light of the earth and will be the completeness of heaven.”
A.W. Tozer: “The man who takes his cross and follows Christ will soon find that his direction is away from the sepulcher. Death is behind him and joyous and increasing life before.”
A.W. Tozer: “The old cross is a symbol of death. God salvages the individual by liquidating him and then raising him again in newness of life. God offers life, but not an improved old life. The life He offers is life out of death. It always stands at the far side of the cross.”
The Old Rugged Cross Versus The New “Nerf Cross”
A.W. Tozer: “All unannounced, and almost undetected, there has come in modern times a new cross into popular evangelical circles… The old cross would have no truck with the world. For Adam’s proud flesh it meant the end of the journey. The new cross, if understood aright, is the source of oceans of good clean fun and innocent enjoyment. It lets Adam live without interference. His life motivation is unchanged; he still lives for his own pleasure.
“That this world is a playground rather than a battleground has now been accepted in practice by the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians. They are facing both ways, enjoying Christ and the world too.”
A.W. Tozer: “Our uncrucified flesh will rob us of purity of heart, Christ-likeness of character, spiritual insight, fruitfulness; and more than all, it will hide from us the vision of God’s face, that vision which has been the light of the earth and will be the completeness of heaven.”
If you truly desire to know more about how to really know the LORD, go here okay: Born Again: What is It?
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Abiding
The Lying Vanity of “Eternal Security” [podcast]
WHY was Satan expelled from God’s presence, from Heaven? What happened the last time sin was found in Heaven? Did God coddle it or kick it out? Jesus told us:
“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Luke 10:18
Oh and will we lose the ability to choose in Heaven? One man recently stated: “Even if you are in Heaven you do not have eternal security.” Interesting and apparently true…. because as I am sure you were alluding to, lucifer and a third of the angels still had choice in Heaven, they chose sin and were expelled (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:13-19; Luke 10:18).
Those who deal with the eternal securists know that it’s observable that these self-serving idolaters, counterfeits, want the assurance of salvation via lies instead of obedience. They campaign, promote, and defend their “eternal security” idol doctrine. If they spent the same time and energy seeking and obeying the LORD they claim to serve, there would be great fruit born.
No one is going to walk in peace and assurance just because they speak of it, claim it, or because they desire to have peace and assurance. No, it’s only when we obey the Word of God that His peace and assurance flood our being. There’s no short cut to obedience (1 John 3:16-18).
The assurance of salvation, of eternal glory with Christ, abides only in those who obey God. The OSAS wolves speak nothing of obeying the LORD. No, instead they spend all their time indoctrinating people with the heresy that they are eternally secure no matter what they do after being saved. Those who give more than cliche’s and lip service to God, enjoy the assurance of His salvation.
“My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby (by obedience) we know that we are of the truth, and shall ASSURE our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.” 1 John 3:18-21
Assurance of salvation in our hearts comes from abiding in and with Christ, from obeying Him – not sitting around convincing ourselves and others that we are “eternally secure” (John 14-15). Such is the occupation of moral coward counterfeits who are lost hell-bound souls.
Convincing people who aren’t abiding in Christ that they are eternally secure is criminal, sinful, and perpetrated by the grace-perverting “ungodly men” Jude warned us about (Jude 3-4). Instead of teaching them that God requires that they love and obey Him, they sidestep this unpopular truth and evilly, insidiously tickle the ears of their prey (2 Timothy 4:2-4).
Of 1 John 3:19, Adam Clarke writes:
“Hereby we know that we are of the truth – That we have the true religion of the Lord Jesus, and shall assure our hearts – be persuaded in our consciences, that we have the truth as it is in Jesus; as no man can impose upon himself by imagining he loves when he does not: he may make empty professions to others, but if he loves either God or man, he knows it because he feels it; and love unfelt is not love, it is word or tongue. This the apostle lays down as a test of a man’s Christianity, and it is the strongest and most infallible test that can be given. He that loves feels that he does love; and he who feels that he loves God and man has true religion; and he who is careful to show the fruits of this love, in obedience to God and humane acts to man, gives others the fullest proof that he has the loving mind that was in Jesus.”
The crux concerning the eternal security counterfeits is that they simply refuse to die – to deny self, take up the cross daily, and follow the Savior they claim is their Savior.
Believing that God requires man to participate in an abiding relationship with Him is not works salvation, it’s Bible 101. The only people who call an abiding walk with Christ “works salvation” are those who are vainly thinking they’re going to use Jesus to get them to Heaven, out of hell, without engaging in a relationship with the Great Bridegroom. These are antichrists. They teach contrary to Christ. Read John 15:1-6. Doesn’t their reasoning, their doctrine sound like the foolish virgins who were shut out of Christ’s kingdom? Yep. Read Matthew 25:1-13.
Instead of using that energy to lay down their lives, to be truly crucified with Christ, the OSAS defenders have endless energy to argue to justify sinning. Why? They simply do not love the LORD. They love self and they love their life in this world and will perish with it (1 Corinthians 2:9b; 1 John 2:15-17).
Eternal securists preach “grace, grace, grace” and yet they have more faith in sin, in sinning, than they do in God’s grace to keep them…. free from sin. They are “(…the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things)” (Philippians 3:18-19).
“For he that is dead is freed from sin.” Romans 6:7
Let me get this straight …… Jesus’ grace was enough to save you but is not strong enough to keep you from the sin He died and rose again to deliver you from?
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“Romans 14:1-3. This post (exposing the heresy of OSAS) continues division among God’s people. God has chosen not to reveal all of Himself to any person. We are all in a broken state of incomplete revelation.”
REPLY:
Not true. You are quoting Romans 14 which is speaking of NON-essentials, not essential doctrine of the original Gospel given to us by Christ and His holy apostles. Those who do not continue in sound doctrine, in the teaching of Christ and His apostles, “hath NOT God” and are to be exposed (2 John 7-11).
The only one causing division is you – a false teacher who is perpetrating the same lie of Satan himself from the Garden of Eden, the original doctrine of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).
Believers are specifically mandated to “earnestly contend” against “ungodly men” who are “turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” such as Satan’s first lie, his first teaching – OSAS/eternal security.
Jude 1:3-5
“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”
Divisions are needed – the divining between the truth-loving remnant of Christ and the counterfeits who espouse falsehoods (Romans 16:17-18). See also Matthew 10:34.
God has clearly, plainly revealed to us the OSAS/eternal security is a lie from His arch enemy and actually led to the fall of mankind in the Garden (Proverbs 22:17-21; Genesis 2:17; 3:4). The warnings against this heresy exist throughout His Word. You may wish to cease using the cop-out position.
Brother Raphael King writes:
“If once saved always saved is correct, then why does Satan tempt saved Christians? What is the aim of the tempter if not to entice the saved ones to sin?
If once saved always saved is correct, why did Jesus tell the man he healed of his infirmity to go and SIN NO MORE? John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
I need your views on these if you think once saved always saved is correct, or you have believed a lie all long!”
According to man’s school of thought, eternal security (also known as “once saved, always saved”) is the belief that from the moment anyone becomes a Christian they will be saved from hell and will not lose their salvation.
But according to the Bible, someone that was once saved can still fall into sin, die in their sins and go to hell!
2 Peter 2:20-22: “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
Let’s analyze some examples:
Judas was once saved! One cannot fall away from a place he has never been. So, accepting this falling away as truth, the conclusion is that one can be saved and then “fall away” or lose his salvation. How can a fallen man fall again if he was never saved at first?
Acts 1:25: “That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”
Judas Iscariot was standing in the Lord, and a follower of Christ before he fell into transgression.
Demas was once saved…
Colossians 4:14: “Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.”
Philemon 1:24: “Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers…” These are saved laborers that Paul referred to.
But Demas later backslid to love the world….
2 Timothy 4:10: “For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.”
1 Corinthians 5 was written to believers who had fallen into fornication. “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.” Paul would not be preaching like this to those that are not yet saved.
The seven churches in Revelation were saved believers before they fell. The Bible recorded their good works. The remedy for them was repentance. Mind you these happened after Pentecost. The church at Ephesus backslid and left its first love. God out of His infinite mercy, sent a message of warning to them. Can you then say that these Churches are not truly saved at first? Then read Revelation 2:1-5 and see their stand before they fell.
Revelation 2:5: “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”
David once fell into sin, Saul once fell into sin, Solomon once fell into sin, Ananias and Sapphira once fell into sin, Lucifer once fell into sin! The lists are endless. These people were saved but somewhere along the line they fell into sin. Some had the grace to repent and utilized it while others wasted it, some didn’t have the grace to repent.
Those that said these people were not truly saved at first should bring evidence from the Bible and not self-assumption. You don’t assume the Bible, you believe it!
If once saved forever saved is true, why did the apostles write to believers that they should not commit sin and warned them to flee from fornication? The Bible talks about repentance in various chapters.
Eternal salvation is for those who always obey God. Once you disobey God, you will lose it just like King Saul in the Bible. The only way to reclaim it is through repentance.
Hebrews 5:9: “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
Saved by Grace to Obey God
The OSAS counterfeits want to say that any obedience or good works for Jesus mean you are seeking to earn your own salvation. But the Bible tells us that we are saved by grace through faith which will always produce the fruit of good works. In fact we are created in Christ to do them!
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10
He saved us by His grace to be “his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Any questions?
Jesus requires that we overcome in order to reign with Him.
“And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:” Revelation 2:26
Those who keep His works to the end are those who trust and worship Christ and not self – He is their “first love.” (Revelation 2:4-5) Their works do not save them and yet they clearly prove they are His.
“Unto the end” is a requirement for eternal glory, otherwise you will be vanquished into the bowels of eternal damnation irrevocably. Faith is required by God to receive Christ’s salvation, and true saving faith always produces good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
Isn’t our obedience to Jesus our LORD an expression of our love for Him?
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15
What did Jesus say concerning our lights shining and “good works”?
“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 5:16
“Be careful to maintain good works”
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.” Titus 3:8
O the endless stream of cowards who seek to evade personal accountability ….. In dealing with yet another heretic, I recently wrote concerning a man who believes he has no personal responsibility to worship, walk with, obey, and engage in an intimate abiding relationship with the Savior He claims saved him (John 15:1-6). He assumes no accountability because he seeks to use Jesus to get him to Heaven but has no interest in the cross Jesus says one must take up daily to truly follow Him-otherwise such a counterfeit is not following Him (Luke 9:23-24). Repent now sinner.
Moral cowards migrate to the “eternal security” heresy because they simply do not want to genuinely repent, to change. They want the crown but not the cross. They vainly believe they are going to use the Savior to get them out of hell yet want nothing to do with a worship-filled, engaged, abiding, fruit-bearing, obedient relationship with the Son of God while on earth. These are the rebels who will hear the LORD declare to them “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” (Matthew 25:4. Read John 15.)
In the biblical model of salvation, you’re not free to sin, you’ve been saved from sin, blessed to live free from sin.
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Romans 6:14
You are now the servant of God, not sin.
“But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” Romans 6:22
Those who go back to sin after being saved, are in danger of hell fire – unless they repent and return to the LORD:
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is STILL death (Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 6:23). God’s grace never changed His definition of sin. God will judge, will damn the souls of every person who dies in sin – whether they were saved in the past or not (Ezekiel 33:12-13; Revelation 22:11, etc.).
Lawless Workers of Iniquity
This warning below from Christ clearly tells us that “MANY” today who call Jesus “Lord”, who claim they are saved, are not.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness).” Matthew 7:21-23
Joe Mann writes:
“When a person does what CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF tells them to not do or do…. it’s not their own work’s…..is it???
Besides a person is not in the PROCESS of being SAVED BY & until BELIEF in WHO & WHAT?
Luke 6:46-49
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
Simply put, those who teach OSAS/eternal security/Calvinism, are sin-justifying, grace-perverting heretics.
The 5 points of Calvinism are utterly false, each and every one of them. Personally, I wear the scorn of the wicked eternal security and calvinist hereticks, as a badge of honor. According to the Holy Spirit’s warning through Jude, these have perverted the faith of the original Gospel of Christ and call it “the doctrines of grace” while they specifically pervert the grace of God. These are “ungodly men” who are “turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness” (license for sin) (Jude 4). We are to “earnestly contend” against them (Jude 3).
You could openly curse the Son of God and they’d say little or nothing. Yet, soon as you expose the lying falsehoods they hide behind and use to justify their sins, those devils behind those “doctrines of devils” manifest (1 Timothy 4:1-2).
Calvinist/osas heretics insist that one is devaluing the perfect payment of Christ on the cross for our sins…. are they?
Jesus’ work was perfect and this same JESUS gave conditions for man to appropriate His salvation. To say otherwise would be to say that everyone is going to Heaven, not matter what which is the heresy we call universalism. Yet some wish to ignore those conditions, those things God requires of anyone who will know and walk with Him. Many have bought lies, half-truths and aren’t being honest with the whole counsel of God’s Word. Jesus told His own 12 they had to “endure to the end” to be “saved” (Matthew 10:22; 24:13).
“Saved by grace through faith. Lets break this down for those who don’t understand… Its by Gods grace we’re offered the gift of salvation; yet that gift of salvation is activated through faith!! Without faith no man can please God. And if people think for one second they’re forced to abide or remain in the faith, they better get back in the word. Jesus even said that he is the true vine, and if we don’t remain in him, we are cut off… OSAS teaching is a lie! We must work out our salvation in fear and trembling before the Lord daily!! Endure unto the end!” Cristina
Specifically speaking to HIS own, Jesus says they must “abide” in Him or they will be cast into the fire (John 15:6).
“If a man abide not in me (does not remain with me), he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” John 15:6
Response to a proponent of OSAS:
Please explain to all of us why EVERY person in the world isn’t automatically saved…. after all, Jesus paid the full price for their sin…. And, show us all in God’s Word how men don’t have free will. “Doctrines of grace” to you are actually the corruption of God’s saving grace and Jude warned us about vile wolves, “ungodly men” like you who turn the saving grace of God in Christ into a license for sin.
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (license to sin), and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” Jude 4
Here’s a Scripture text on true saving grace that you are allergic to and that your phony “grace teachers” never mentioned….
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” Titus 2:11-12
Every false teacher is going to hell (2 Peter 2:1-3).
Calvinists speak of “doctrines of grace” while intentionally ignoring and evading Bible passages on grace such as Titus 2:11-12. Calvinists are con men. They are fulfilling the Holy Spirit’s prophecy through Jude as they over emphasize grace while deliberately evading certain grace Scriptures and mountains of truth (Jude 4). What about holiness – God’s holiness, and the truth that He said “Be ye holy for I am holy”? See 1 Peter 1:15-16. You purposely ignore it because you simply don’t want to die, to lay down your life in this fleeting world, to be crucified with Christ. Counterfeit. | Grace vs Holiness
Much more explosive truth on the topic of the mythical “eternal security” |
Support | STORE | Podcasts | Jail/Prison Ministry | Mexico Mission here | All Ministry Updates | Eternal Security/OSAS | Calvinism Exposed | Accounted Worthy to Escape [podcast] |Sealed? | The Return of Christ | Support | Lie of the Ages [podcast] | 10 Questions about Eternal Security | Is Salvation Eternal? | The Damning Myth of Unconditional Eternal Security [podcast] | The Essential of Fearing God | The KING is Coming [podcast] | Lie of the Ages (Blockbuster book exposing OSAS and calvinism) | Lukewarm is Hell Bound!



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