Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy and Heretics
Does mankind have a sin nature, a bent toward evil? If so, where did that come from? What really happened at the fall? Can fallen mankind, by his own “natural ability”, self-will to overcome all sin? If so, WHY did Jesus come? (Galatians 2:21) | Charles Finney was a false teacher.
As a side, note: I’ve had people disown me for exposing Charles Finney which seems to a cult-like indoctrination and the corresponding devils (demons) that come with espousing “doctrines of devils.” Remember that “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” are inseparable. Any person who believes a doctrine of devils has evil seducing spirit, a demon in his/her life.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
No one is guilty for someone else’s sin. God holds each individual guilty, fully responsible for their own sin (Ezekiel 18). Yet that in no way negates or changes the fact that something bad happened when man sinned against God in the Garden. If so, rip Romans 3, 5, and 7 out of your Bible. To deny such, to ignore such is the path to delusionment. This has tripped up many otherwise truth-seeking people today. The main source of this poison has come through the heretical ministries of men like Charles Finney.
“Salvation is the work of man.” Charles Finney
The no-sin-nature (“old man“, “flesh”)-to-crucify heresy is just another cross-less lie. It’s peddled by those who refuse to die and who pretend to be sinless perfection by means of their own “natural ability.” Beware of these antichrists.
If there were no inherent sinful bend, bent, iniquitous nature…. WHY O WHY would Paul have repeatedly taught that Christ’s disciples must “keep under” their “body” or flesh, the old man? (1 Corinthians 9:27) Why the cross if there is nothing to daily crucify? Someone is lying and it’s not Jesus and His holy apostles. Beware. Think biblically. | Judgment to Come Necessitates the Crucified Life [podcast]
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“My question is if Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the sins of the son and vice versa how does God count Adam’s sin against us?”
REPLY:
No, Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the responsibility of the son and vice versa. That’s different. In other words the sins the father chooses to commit or walk in he shall long bear the judgment for. God says in Ezekiel 18:4 that each individual soul is HIS and will be rewarded according to the choices he makes while on earth. The father will not give account for the son nor the son for the father. Read Ezekiel 18. There were wicked kings with good children such as wicked king Abijam vs his son Asa who chose to do right. 1 Kings 15.
Ezekiel 18 is the same teaching as this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
Have you read Romans 5 lately? v12, 18-19
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22
All men are born after Adam and then choose Christ or to reject Him. Matthew 12:30; Mark 16:16, etc.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So, you believe that God has made us fallen? Back to my point, why IF we are made perfect by God Ps 139 then how are we born into a sinful nature? It is either constituted or practiced unto unto total depravity.
My other point was that the moral neutrality that God has given us at birth with the knowledge of good and evil swirling all round us. The weakness of the flesh to temptation and then sin, and then death is easily revealed.”
REPLY:
I would exhort you to put off the things you’ve learned and read Romans 7 afresh. Also Galatians 5:17-18. Call it what you wish, something is raging within, there is a war within. The Bible calls it the flesh, the old man which can only be put off by the crucified life (Romans 6; 8:11-14).
‘For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.’ Galatians 5:17-18
Why would Jesus mandate self must be denied if there were nothing to deny, to be crucified? (Luke 9:23-24)
You keep saying or asking if I believe God made us fallen. Sorry but I have repeatedly stated that God made us perfect. Genesis 1:31; Eccl 7:29 etc. Of his own God-given free will, man chose to sin against God – all by himself (Genesis 6:5, 12; Romans 3; James 1:13-15, etc.).
You don’t seem to realize that there was a fall in sin-less paradise, in the Garden. And you won’t until read Romans 3 and 5 and believe it. Begin with a prayer, asking the LORD to remove the poison you’ve been indoctrinated with by wicked men such as Charles Finney. v12, 18-19 of Romans 5 for sure.
What happened at the fall? Is the wages of sin not death? Romans 6:23 In the divine economy of God who is “Holy, holy, holy,” does sin not have a profound effect? Are you denying that sin affected mankind? Such would be diametrically opposed to and against the clear teaching of Romans 3, 5, 7.
You are only half way to the truth with the idea of “moral neutrality.” Such would deny lots of what Scripture informs us of concerning our heart being “only evil continually,” “desperately wicked,” etc. Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9
Those who do not study and know God’s Word thoroughly are susceptible to being deceived by the “many false prophets” that “are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Example: There’s a group of heretics that run around boldly declaring the lie that there is no sinful bent in believers. Nonsense. Mike Desario and Charles Finney were both false teachers.
These dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, mankind’s fallen sinful state, and what God has said about fallen mankind.
Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according to Christ (Matthew 21:31)! There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.
YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)
Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.
God made us one way, perfect. But then we sinned and something bad happened.
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31
God made mankind and said “it was very good.” Then man sinned and incurred death (Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 5:18-19). The details of the curse that came upon mankind when Adam and Eve sinned against God, are given to us in Genesis 3. Death came into man at the fall. Something happened, and it wasn’t good. Read Romans 7.
“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
God made us perfect but WE chose sin and fell and there are consequences for sin, right? And there’s also salvation, redemption, regeneration, choice, the cross, victory that we can choose to receive and walk in.
“Total depravity” is a false doctrine of calvinism which says “we are so sinful and we have no choice about anything. We have no ability to turn to God in repentance and faith to be redeemed, regenerated, made new creatures, temples of the Holy Spirit in Christ.” False.
We have the choice, the privilege to choose Christ and His cross to overcome all depravity, sin.
The Word says things like we are “desperately wicked” right? See Jeremiah 17:9. How about Genesis 6:5, 12 too, right? There’s Romans 3, 5, 6, 7 for the effects of sin, and 8 for the victory of Christ.
The no-sin-nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
In my understanding…. the no-sin-nature doctrine does not stand the test of the whole counsel of God’s Word. It is vehemently peddled by some today (Proverbs 14:12).
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so, so often? Read Romans 3, 5-7 afresh, carefully.
If there were nothing to “put off,” this divine command would not exist (Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:8-9). All the Scriptures on the cross, the crucified life, would be useless if there were nothing to crucify – there would be no cross to “take up” which would mean we call Jesus a lunatic and liar for having commanded us to take up the cross, to live a crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; 14:27).
Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!
How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? See Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8.
Mankind’s fallen state:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6)?
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21
Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).
Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.
“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”
REPLY:
Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT” (Romans 5:11).
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So we have the same flesh as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”
REPLY:
Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.
Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42), but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Timothy 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.
You “think”? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”
REPLY:
You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her excuses was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.
I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.
I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.
In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc.. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.
As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.
Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.
I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.”
REPLY:
God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more” (John 8). You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Colossians 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Colossians 1:12-14).
You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Luke 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME” (Romans 7:21). “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Romans 6:-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17), and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature, and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10). Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v. 13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23
This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:4-5).
Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.
Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.” First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.
You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.
It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.” ALL you need is God’s Word, and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Psalms. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Peter 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).
Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).
You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Proverbs 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.
I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.
And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”
REPLY:
You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.
Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.
What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).
Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM” (Romans 7:24). This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done” (Luke 22:42). Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.
Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer
To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it. I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).
Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”
Atonement is a “theory”? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain” (Galatians 2:21). It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error” (1 John 4:1-6).
It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.
God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29). He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9). Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28
God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world” (John 1:29). The singular use of “sin” here is telling.
If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)
todd
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Notes:
As should be obvious, we continue to war against this Charles Finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self
No propensity toward sin?
Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others” (Ephesians 2:1-3). See also Romans 7.
The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..
God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).
There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).
1 John 2:1-2
Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. Gal 3:3
Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.
Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).
Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).
Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).
The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.
***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13
Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19
One writer notes:
“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross. The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”
Articles
Soul Sleep Exposed: Where Do We Go When We Die? When do we Go there? [podcast]
Do you realize that upon death, immediately, each soul is instantly translated, transported to their new and eternal place of existence – comfort and joy or hell fire? Instantly each soul is already judged upon death and literally in hell or Heaven now (Luke 16:19-31; 2 Corinthians 5:6, 8; Philippians 1:21-23; Hebrews 9:27).
When the Bible speaks of “slept” or “sleep”, it’s speaking of the body, not the eternal soul. For example, the soul sleep cults use verses like 1 Kings 2:10 to attempt to “prove” soul sleep.
“So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.” 1 Kings 2:10
“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,” Acts 2:34
Notice here in Acts 2:34 that it says “David is not ascended into the heavens.”
Primarily this is speaking of Jesus, the son of David and the prophecies Peter is speaking of in this message He’s preaching.
“Act_2:34: Ascended not for is not ascended, A.V. For David, etc. The ascension of Christ is inferred from the previous prophecy, “Thou wilt show me the path of life,” etc.; and is there distinctly proved from Psa_110:1, which Peter (remembering, probably, our Lord’s application of it as recorded in Mat_22:42-45, which he had doubtless heard) shows could not apply to David himself, but only to David’s Lord.” Pulpit
David’s eternal soul is in Heaven now.
“[David is not ascended into the heavens] This refers to David’s body in resurrection, not to his soul and spirit which are in heaven (Heb_12:23; Eph_4:8-10; 2Co_5:8; Php_1:21-24).” Dake
Hebrews 9:27; 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and Philippians 1:21-23; Revelation 22:11 make it clear that when one dies he goes straight to his eternal destination. Any compromise on this doctrine is evil and constitutes that which seduces the believer towards lasciviousness Jude 3-4. There will be no second chance to repent. Death is final and as one dies so shall he be forever (Luke 16:19-31; Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 22:11).
Fact: Only cults teach soul sleep.
Praying for someone who’s already dead is futile. At death, the soul goes to Heaven if the person is a born again Christ or eternally, irrevocably to hell. Read Luke 16:19-31 in the King James Bible. “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Hebrews 9:27)
The Word of God tells us that anyone living in sin, upon death, is going to hell, immediately upon death. Luke 16:19-31; Hebrews 9:27; Ezekiel 33:12-13, etc Those who are born again and abiding in Christ will be with Him immediately upon death (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:21-23). You have to be born again to be in Christ.
“To Day Shalt Thou be with Me in Paradise”
“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:42-43
“To day” this repentant former thief who hung next to Jesus was going to be “in paradise” and not asleep in the grave.
The doctrine of soul sleep is taught by many cults including the Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Roman Catholic version of this antichrist, diabolical lie is their teaching on purgatory (an in-between state where average Catholics supposedly get their sins burned off by fire because the blood of Christ was not good enough to cleanse away those sins). This false teaching (soul sleep) supposes that when people die they go into a state of sleep or nothingness. Yet, the Bible reveals something very different. These false teachings are a diabolical attempt to remove the severe reality of conscious, eternal torment (Mark 9:43-49).
The flames of eternal damnation shall forever feed upon the conscious souls of all rebels. Mark 9:43-49 KJB Are you born again? Go here now and make peace with God before its too late.
Recently I replied to a post that was pushing the soul sleep heresy. Here it is….
REPLY:
Soul sleep is another false teaching taught only by the cults. Beware of those peddling this lie. Luke 16:19-31 makes it more than clear that upon death, the eternal soul of the individual goes to Heaven or hell based upon the spiritual state at the moment of death. Upon death the soul goes straight to Heaven or hell. Heb 9:27; 2 Cor 5:6-8; Philippians 1:21-23
The righteous who have died, are “under the altar” in Heaven, right now.
“And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw UNDER THE ALTAR the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:” Revelation 6:9
No Sleep, Just Judgment at the Moment of Death
The grave is the “final resting place” of no one. Heaven or hell await – immediately upon drawing one’s last breath on earth. Read Luke 16:19-31 and Hebrews 9:27.
QUESTION RECEIVED:
“Todd where do you believe we go when we die? Why do some preach we go to the grave until Christ returns?”
REPLY:
The Bible tells us we go directly to glory or hell (2 Cor 5:6-8; Phil 1:21-23; Luke 16:19-31; 23:43). It’s false to teach we go to the grave only. Cults teach that. That’s a false teaching that gives us a clue that we are dealing with a cult.
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” Hebrews 9:27
According to the full-counsel of God’s Word, when a person dies, that soul goes directly, immediately to the destination God has judged them to go.
When someone dies, they are immediately in the place they have merited with God – Heaven or hell. Then, the wicked will be dredged up and will be formerly sentenced. Those not found written in the book of life will be brought before the Throne of God to be terminated or “cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11-15)
As a person dies – that is, in the spiritual state they die in – so shall they be for all eternity. There are no second chances.
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11
The apostle Paul taught us that immediately upon death he was going to “be with Christ”:
“For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.” Philippians 1:23
“Philippians 1:23: To depart – Out of bonds, flesh, the world. And to be with Christ – In a nearer and fuller union. It is better to depart; it is far better to be with Christ.” John Wesley
“Notice that Paul did not believe in any theory of soul-sleep. He believed that the Christian goes to be with Christ at the time of death and that he is in the conscious enjoyment of the presence of the Lord. How ridiculous it would be for him to say, as some do today: “To live is Christ; to sleep is gain.” Or, “To depart and to sleep is far better.” “Sleep” is used in the NT of the believer’s body at the time of death (1Th_4:14), never of his soul. Soul-sleep is a myth. Notice, too, that death is not to be confused with the coming of the Savior. At the time of death, we go to be with Him. At the time of the Rapture, He comes to us.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
Remember how the rich man in Luke 16 died and immediately he was in hell?
“the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.” Luke 16:22-23
Read Luke 16:19-31 and you will see that immediately upon death, the wicked and the righteous go to their separate places and are fully conscious. No such thing as soul sleep.
“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD.” 2 Corinthians 5:6-8
We are fully confident that the moment we pass, we breathe our last, we shall “be present with the Lord.”
“2 Corinthians 5:8: Present with the Lord – This demonstrates that the happiness of the saints is not deferred till the resurrection.” John Wesley
“2 Corinthians 5:8: [to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord] To die and be absent from the body means we go to heaven to be with the Lord (Php_1:21-24; Heb_12:23; Jas_2:26; Rev_6:9-11). This is proof that the inner man does not go to the grave at death, but to heaven if one is righteous. If one is wicked he goes to hell awaiting the resurrection of his body (Luk_16:19-31, notes; Rev_20:11-15).” Dake
On this matter of where the human soul goes immediately upon death, refuting soul sleep, Donald Stamps wrote:
“Psalms 16:10 THOU WILL NOT LEAVE MY SOUL IN HELL. ‘Hell’ (Heb. Sheol) here means the grave. A personal relationship with God will give believers confidence in a future life with God and certainty that He will not abandon them to the grave (cf. 73:24-26). The apostles Peter and Paul both applied this verse to Christ and His resurrection (Acts 2:25-31; 13:34-37).
(1) Sheol, found sixty-five times in the O.T., is translated thirty-one times as ‘the grave,’ thirty-one times as ‘hell,’ and three times as ‘the pit.’ When the N.T. quotes these passages, it generally translates it with the Greek word Hades. Some scholars believe Sheol always means the grave, while others think it never has that meaning alone.
(2) In general, the O.T. views Sheol as a place associated with some sort of punishment. (a) When Jacob indicated that he would go to Sheol because of the loss of his son Joseph (Gen. 37:25), he felt he must be under the judgment of God; thus he refused to be comforted. There is no evidence that he sought God further until after he heard Joseph was still alive. (b) David clearly indicated that Sheol was the place where ‘the heathen’ would go (9:17), and Isaiah said that the heathen king Tiglath-Pileser of Assyria, upon his death, would meet in Sheol the kings he conquered (Is. 14:9-10). (c) There are several passages that indicate the Israelites did not expect to go to Sheol at all at death, but would instead go where they would enjoy the blessings of God’s presence. When David died, for example, he anticipated dwelling in the house of the Lord forever (23:6). Another psalmist believed that God would redeem him from the hand of Sheol and receive him to Himself in heaven (49:15; cf. 73:24-25). And Solomon testified that the wise, God-fearing man goes to the place above, ‘that he may depart from hell beneath’ (Prov. 15:24).” Donald Stamps, Life in the Spirit Study Bible, p. 820
Of this biblical doctrine, brother Charlie Anthony writes:
“Concerning the time between the believer’s death and his or her bodily resurrection, Scripture teaches the following. (a) At the time of death believers are brought into Christ’s presence. (2 Cor. 5:8 – Phil. 1:23). (b) Believers exist in full consciousness ( Luke 16:19-31) and experience joy at the kindness and love shown by God (Eph. 2:7). Amen!”
But the wicked go straight to the conscious torment of hell immediately upon death (Luke 16:19-31).
Soul sleep is a lie that only cults teach (Philippians 1:21-23; 2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Revelation 6:9).
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Apostasy
Pride and False Prophets [podcast]
“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” Matthew 24:11
What’s the difference between true and false servants of the LORD?
Jeremiah 23 is essential concerning recognizing the “MANY false prophets” which Jesus foretold would “deceive MANY” in this late hour before His return (Matthew 24:11).
True servants of the LORD stand in the counsel, the WORD of the LORD and not in the evil imaginations, dreams, or visions of their own wicked hearts.
Jeremiah 23
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.”
ARE YOU in God’s Word daily or have you backslidden? It’s either one or the other.
True servants of the LORD, as was the case with Paul and Timothy, will get YOU into God’s Word for yourself…
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15
“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:” 1 Peter 2:2
So both the LORD’s apostle Paul and the apostle Peter instructed believers to get into the Word of God for themselves – to “study” and to “desire” it. Any man pretending to represent Christ and not do this very thing repeatedly is a bona fide wolf in sheep’s clothing, a devil.
Imagine parents who continued to feed their infant and never taught that baby to pick up the spoon and feed themself…. so that child would perpetually be dependent upon someone else feeding them…. in the natural this is unheard of, yet it’s rampant in that which claims to be Christ’s “church.”
Read Jeremiah 23.
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.” James 4:6-10
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1
Pride vs Humility
“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” (Proverbs 16:18) True humility before God first, then men, always wins – “Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.” (James 4:10)
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Articles
“Come unto Me, all Ye that Labour and are Heavy Laden, and I will Give You Rest” [podcast
God is “Holy, holy, holy” and “God is love.” (Isaiah 6:3; 1 John 4:8, 16; Revelation 4:8)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:16-18
Jesus came and died to save us “while we were yet sinners.”
“For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:6-8
The Proof of God’s Love for all Men
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” 1 John 4:9-10
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelation 22:17
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30
“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the“ lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:4-8
“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
Prayer: Heavenly Father, please do Your ever-deepening work in my heart and life. Please imbue my innermost being with your holiness, holy fear, and love. Bless this vessel to be purified, cleansed of all iniquity and falsity, made authentic by You dear LORD. In Jesus’ name, amen.
For a daily dose and feeding of God’s Word, as a component of your study of the LORD, of His Word, the Moments with Our Master 365 daily devotional is available. | STORE
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Soul Sleep Exposed: Where Do We Go When We Die? When do we Go there? [podcast]
Oneness Godhead
Pride and False Prophets [podcast]
“Come unto Me, all Ye that Labour and are Heavy Laden, and I will Give You Rest” [podcast
Have We Misunderstood Why Christians Meet Together? [video]
Jesus Christ is God [podcast]
Salvation is Not a One-Time Experience but a Lifelong Walk [podcast]
“Feed My Sheep” [podcast]
Mission Mexico Part 43
IS AMERICA DOOMED? To Stay or to Go [podcast]
Concerns about the writings of C.S. Lewis [podcast]
How to Spot a Fake Bible [podcast]
How do We Know Who is “of God” and Who is “Not of God”? [podcast]
Mug Shots and Mercy Moments! [podcast]
What the Bible says about Effeminate Men [podcast] [shorts video]
10 Clues Your Love for God has Waxed Cold [podcast]
Favorite Eternal Security “Proof” Text? [podcast]
Jesus Calling Devotional Exposed: 10 Things You Might Not Know
Water Baptism: Understanding It [study guide]
How to Spot a Fake Bible [podcast]
Jesus Christ is God [podcast]
Read the Handwriting
Why the Apocrypha Isn’t in the Bible
Soul Sleep Exposed: Where Do We Go When We Die? When do we Go there? [podcast]
The Warnings of the Book of Jude [podcast]
Salvation is Not a One-Time Experience but a Lifelong Walk [podcast]
Mug Shots and Mercy Moments! [podcast]
How do We Know Who is “of God” and Who is “Not of God”? [podcast]
Concerns about the writings of C.S. Lewis [podcast]
What the Bible says about Effeminate Men [podcast] [shorts video]
Soul Sleep Exposed: Where Do We Go When We Die? When do we Go there? [podcast]
Oneness Godhead
Pride and False Prophets [podcast]
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Self-Examination in Preparation for the Lord’s Return
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SHOCKING List of False Prophets Most Believe are True
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