Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy and Heretics
Does mankind have a sin nature, a bent toward evil? If so, where did that come from? What really happened at the fall? Can fallen mankind, by his own “natural ability”, self-will to overcome all sin? If so, WHY did Jesus come? (Galatians 2:21) | Charles Finney was a false teacher.
As a side, note: I’ve had people disown me for exposing Charles Finney which seems to a cult-like indoctrination and the corresponding devils (demons) that come with espousing “doctrines of devils.” Remember that “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” are inseparable. Any person who believes a doctrine of devils has evil seducing spirit, a demon in his/her life.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
No one is guilty for someone else’s sin. God holds each individual guilty, fully responsible for their own sin (Ezekiel 18). Yet that in no way negates or changes the fact that something bad happened when man sinned against God in the Garden. If so, rip Romans 3, 5, and 7 out of your Bible. To deny such, to ignore such is the path to delusionment. This has tripped up many otherwise truth-seeking people today. The main source of this poison has come through the heretical ministries of men like Charles Finney.
“Salvation is the work of man.” Charles Finney
The no-sin-nature (“old man“, “flesh”)-to-crucify heresy is just another cross-less lie. It’s peddled by those who refuse to die and who pretend to be sinless perfection by means of their own “natural ability.” Beware of these antichrists.
If there were no inherent sinful bend, bent, iniquitous nature…. WHY O WHY would Paul have repeatedly taught that Christ’s disciples must “keep under” their “body” or flesh, the old man? (1 Corinthians 9:27) Why the cross if there is nothing to daily crucify? Someone is lying and it’s not Jesus and His holy apostles. Beware. Think biblically. | Judgment to Come Necessitates the Crucified Life [podcast]
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“My question is if Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the sins of the son and vice versa how does God count Adam’s sin against us?”
REPLY:
No, Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the responsibility of the son and vice versa. That’s different. In other words the sins the father chooses to commit or walk in he shall long bear the judgment for. God says in Ezekiel 18:4 that each individual soul is HIS and will be rewarded according to the choices he makes while on earth. The father will not give account for the son nor the son for the father. Read Ezekiel 18. There were wicked kings with good children such as wicked king Abijam vs his son Asa who chose to do right. 1 Kings 15.
Ezekiel 18 is the same teaching as this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
Have you read Romans 5 lately? v12, 18-19
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22
All men are born after Adam and then choose Christ or to reject Him. Matthew 12:30; Mark 16:16, etc.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So, you believe that God has made us fallen? Back to my point, why IF we are made perfect by God Ps 139 then how are we born into a sinful nature? It is either constituted or practiced unto unto total depravity.
My other point was that the moral neutrality that God has given us at birth with the knowledge of good and evil swirling all round us. The weakness of the flesh to temptation and then sin, and then death is easily revealed.”
REPLY:
I would exhort you to put off the things you’ve learned and read Romans 7 afresh. Also Galatians 5:17-18. Call it what you wish, something is raging within, there is a war within. The Bible calls it the flesh, the old man which can only be put off by the crucified life (Romans 6; 8:11-14).
‘For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.’ Galatians 5:17-18
Why would Jesus mandate self must be denied if there were nothing to deny, to be crucified? (Luke 9:23-24)
You keep saying or asking if I believe God made us fallen. Sorry but I have repeatedly stated that God made us perfect. Genesis 1:31; Eccl 7:29 etc. Of his own God-given free will, man chose to sin against God – all by himself (Genesis 6:5, 12; Romans 3; James 1:13-15, etc.).
You don’t seem to realize that there was a fall in sin-less paradise, in the Garden. And you won’t until read Romans 3 and 5 and believe it. Begin with a prayer, asking the LORD to remove the poison you’ve been indoctrinated with by wicked men such as Charles Finney. v12, 18-19 of Romans 5 for sure.
What happened at the fall? Is the wages of sin not death? Romans 6:23 In the divine economy of God who is “Holy, holy, holy,” does sin not have a profound effect? Are you denying that sin affected mankind? Such would be diametrically opposed to and against the clear teaching of Romans 3, 5, 7.
You are only half way to the truth with the idea of “moral neutrality.” Such would deny lots of what Scripture informs us of concerning our heart being “only evil continually,” “desperately wicked,” etc. Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9
Those who do not study and know God’s Word thoroughly are susceptible to being deceived by the “many false prophets” that “are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Example: There’s a group of heretics that run around boldly declaring the lie that there is no sinful bent in believers. Nonsense. Mike Desario and Charles Finney were both false teachers.
These dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, mankind’s fallen sinful state, and what God has said about fallen mankind.
Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according to Christ (Matthew 21:31)! There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.
YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)
Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.
God made us one way, perfect. But then we sinned and something bad happened.
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31
God made mankind and said “it was very good.” Then man sinned and incurred death (Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 5:18-19). The details of the curse that came upon mankind when Adam and Eve sinned against God, are given to us in Genesis 3. Death came into man at the fall. Something happened, and it wasn’t good. Read Romans 7.
“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
God made us perfect but WE chose sin and fell and there are consequences for sin, right? And there’s also salvation, redemption, regeneration, choice, the cross, victory that we can choose to receive and walk in.
“Total depravity” is a false doctrine of calvinism which says “we are so sinful and we have no choice about anything. We have no ability to turn to God in repentance and faith to be redeemed, regenerated, made new creatures, temples of the Holy Spirit in Christ.” False.
We have the choice, the privilege to choose Christ and His cross to overcome all depravity, sin.
The Word says things like we are “desperately wicked” right? See Jeremiah 17:9. How about Genesis 6:5, 12 too, right? There’s Romans 3, 5, 6, 7 for the effects of sin, and 8 for the victory of Christ.
The no-sin-nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
In my understanding…. the no-sin-nature doctrine does not stand the test of the whole counsel of God’s Word. It is vehemently peddled by some today (Proverbs 14:12).
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so, so often? Read Romans 3, 5-7 afresh, carefully.
If there were nothing to “put off,” this divine command would not exist (Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:8-9). All the Scriptures on the cross, the crucified life, would be useless if there were nothing to crucify – there would be no cross to “take up” which would mean we call Jesus a lunatic and liar for having commanded us to take up the cross, to live a crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; 14:27).
Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!
How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? See Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8.
Mankind’s fallen state:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6)?
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21
Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).
Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.
“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”
REPLY:
Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT” (Romans 5:11).
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So we have the same flesh as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”
REPLY:
Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.
Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42), but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Timothy 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.
You “think”? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”
REPLY:
You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her excuses was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.
I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.
I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.
In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc.. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.
As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.
Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.
I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.”
REPLY:
God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more” (John 8). You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Colossians 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Colossians 1:12-14).
You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Luke 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME” (Romans 7:21). “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Romans 6:-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17), and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature, and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10). Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v. 13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23
This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:4-5).
Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.
Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.” First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.
You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.
It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.” ALL you need is God’s Word, and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Psalms. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Peter 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).
Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).
You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Proverbs 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.
I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.
And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”
REPLY:
You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.
Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.
What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).
Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM” (Romans 7:24). This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done” (Luke 22:42). Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.
Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer
To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it. I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).
Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”
Atonement is a “theory”? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain” (Galatians 2:21). It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error” (1 John 4:1-6).
It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.
God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29). He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9). Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28
God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world” (John 1:29). The singular use of “sin” here is telling.
If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)
todd
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Notes:
As should be obvious, we continue to war against this Charles Finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self
No propensity toward sin?
Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others” (Ephesians 2:1-3). See also Romans 7.
The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..
God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).
There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).
1 John 2:1-2
Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. Gal 3:3
Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.
Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).
Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).
Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).
The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.
***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13
Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19
One writer notes:
“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross. The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”
Abiding
The Victory of the Crucified Life [podcast]
The victory of God in your life comes through the victory of Jesus’ life, death, burial, and resurrection. And thereafter, from adhering to His instructions on how to walk with Him – the way of the cross.
“Praise be to God! Glory, glory, O what a wonderful Saviour we have in Christ Jesus! What salvation! What beauty of holiness that can change ashes into beauty! We praise Thee, Most High in all Thy beauty and holiness, and thank Thee for salvation found in Thy holy One, Jesus Christ.” Jon Crane
WHO are truly Christ’s?
“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (the cross, crucified life).” Galatians 5:24
Read that verse above again. Memorize it.
There are many who claim to be Christians, followers of Jesus, yet regrettably, but a miniscule few are actually His, are actually serving the Son of God on His stated terms – recorded in God’s Word, the Bible. One cannot pretend to honor the Savior who bled on that cross, was buried, and raised again and yet not be diligently learning what He said and obeying Him.
MOST who claim to be Christ’s live according to what suits THEM, not Christ. “Depart from me” is coming if they don’t repent (Matthew 7:21-23; 25:40-46).
“And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.” 2 Corinthians 5:15
You are no longer your own. You are a new creature in Christ, an ambassador of Christ, the temple of the Holy Ghost. Read 1 Corinthians 6 and 2 Corinthians 5.
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.” 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
There’s War Going on
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
This war, the warring against the flesh, cannot and will not be won outside of the crucified life and yet, scarcely do we ever hear the daily cross, the crucified life original Gospel message, even mentioned today by pastors, much less taught on regularly. They are what Paul calls “enemies of the cross of Christ.” (Philippians 3:18-19) The days of the prophesied great apostasy are in complete fulfillment (Matthew 24:10-11; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 3:1-13; 4:2-4; 2 Pter 2; Jude 3-4; 2 John 7-11; Revelation 2-3, etc.).
God has already said that you can walk in His full victory – the victory won by the sinless Son of God who alone was crucified, buried, and raised again from the dead.
“But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 15:57
And His victory is to empower His people to do HIS work:
“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 15:58
WHEN you begin seeing GOD raise you upward into His victory, the victory He alone can bring in your life, you are going to scratch your head and wish you’d heard and applied this cross message a long time ago! It’s going to be one of those Boom Jesus! moments.
“Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.” 2 Corinthians 4:10-12
“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” Hebrews 13:20-21
“Wish I’d have known about walking in this original Gospel cross message a long time ago! Why did I wait so long? If you want to have more fruit you must die! Want to to be resurrected and have new life in Jesus? Die. God doesn’t use anyone who hasn’t fully surrendered themselves to Him.” Karen Cochran
Do We Truly Have and Walk in Christ’s Victory Beloved of God?
It’s one thing to say “I have victory in Jesus” and yet another to actually be walking in, experiencing that victory over sin and Satan by way of the crucified life which Jesus and His holy apostles prescribed as the only way to actually possess, or be possessed by that victory. Think cross economy – death, burial, and resurrection – the Gospel being re-enacted in your daily life (Romans 6).
WE CAN only preside as master over the flesh, the self-life, as we are crucified with Christ – and thereby is the flesh kept under the authority and power of Christ, who is raising up into His victory the crucified saint.
Memorize this:
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” 1 Corinthians 9:27
Not one of us is walking in victory outside of complying with our LORD’s cross message – that we must die so He can live in and reign in us. And you are not alone. As usual God gives the grace, His divine empowerment to all who obey Him. Note “through the Spirit” …. Read this closely:
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” Romans 8:11-14
According to Scripture, including the above passage, there is no walking in the Spirit, walking in the raised-up-by-the-Holy-Spirit-life outside of being crucified with Christ. We have a whole generation of misled “Spirit filled” professing Christians who have never heard of the original Gospel requirement and message of the cross. Their diabolical handlers are what Paul calls “the enemies of the cross of Christ” (Philippians 3:18-19).
Notice that the fruit of the Holy Spirit is inseparable from the crucified life. Read this closely:
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (the cross, crucified life).
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
You do not and will never have victory in Christ until you submit to His cross – to being crucified with Christ, just as He mandates for all who will follow Him. This is His stated term:
“And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.” Luke 9:23-24
Only those truly submitted to God, to His cross, are going to overcome sin, Satan, and the flesh and walking in the victory Jesus died to grant each of His people.
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” James 4:7
TODAY, you are either dying downward and being raised up by Christ into His victory – or you are losing, you are in defeat and will remain there until there is sincere repentance, confession of all sin, and an embracing of the crucified life Jesus calls you to.
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Romans 6:1-14
Reading Romans 6 each morning this week is a life changer waiting to happen. Do it.
“They want heaven without the cost …. That is a false gospel message and many are deceived by it. We are to deny ourselves take up the cross daily and follow Jesus. Trust and obey.” Darlene
Holiness is essential and there can be no holiness without the cross.
Holiness is not the way to Christ. Christ is the only way to holiness – and He prescribed, He mandated the cross for such to be accomplished. There are no shortcuts.
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” Hebrews 12:14
“But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:” 1 Peter 1:15-17
“Satan has redefined Christianity with no requirements, no sacrifice and costs nothing. You can live as you please, because God accepts you as you are. It’s been all finished at the cross as many vainly believe. If you truly follow Jesus you must crucify the flesh. There is no way to be Holy as I am Holy 1 Peter: 1:15. without dying and taking your sinful self (flesh) to the cross of Christ. Without holiness no one will see the Lord! Hebrews 12:14 Doctrines of Devils. 1 Timothy 4: 1-2 Yes. They want a ticket to heaven but nothing else. No relationship just a free ticket. They somehow believe God will welcome them with open arms.” Karen Cochran
Why would anyone in their right mind want to be filled with sinful self when we can all be filled with the Savior, with the Holy Spirit? John the Baptised cried out to the LORD with this prayer and declaration that we should all pray right now to our God in Jesus’ name:
“He must increase, but I must decrease.” John 3:30
YOUR PRAYER: Holy Father, thank You for finding and saving me into Your eternal kingdom family through Christ. I come to You now in Jesus’ name, surrendering to You afresh, laying my whole being, my life, at Your feet dear LORD. Please have Your holy way in this life, possessing my heart, mind, and body. Sanctify me for Thy glory dear LORD Jesus. Please wash and cleanse me of all sin, of all that is unclean and defiles, right this moment LORD by Your precious blood. Please fill this, Your vessel and use me. In the name above all name, the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Camping Out on the Message of His Cross |
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Abiding
The Sheep vs the Goats as Defined in Scripture [podcast]
“The goats feed their carnal appetite. The sheep of Christ feed on the Word of God! Jesus’ sheep know His voice. They follow and obey their Lord Jesus (John 10:27). The goats obey their fleshy desires (Galatians 5:16-21), and follow the hirelings and not the Great Shepherd, the LORD Jesus (John 10; Heb 13:20). Christ’s sheep are known by Him! (John 10:14,27; 1 Corinthians 8:3). The goats will be cast out and told, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.’ (Matthew 7:23). Terrifying words! Are you Jesus’ sheep, or are you a goat, a counterfeit? Search your heart today. Ask God if He knows you! It matters not if we claim to know Him. He must also know us, as this Scriptures clearly reveal!” Karen Cochran
“Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: 24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” Psalms 139:23-24
Of sheep and goats, one source notes:
“Jesus shares the story of the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew 25:31–46 to describe the final judgment. In the story, the Son of Man separates all of humanity just like a shepherd sorts sheep from goats, placing the sheep on His right side and the goats on His left.”
The Naked Truth about Who’s Going to Heaven and Who’s Going to Hell
WANT to see those whom the LORD calls His own? Want to see who the true Heaven bound remnant are? Look at those who are about the “Father’s business” which is the Great Commission (Luke 2:49; 24:47; Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15; Acts, etc.). Everyone else is doing their own thing.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21
With their life, the rebel declares “Not Thy will but mine be done!”
With their life, the righteous declare with Christ “not my will, but thine, be done” (Luke 24:42).
“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.” John 14:21-24
“And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” 1 John 2:3-6
Walk and live as Jesus lived? Yes. Those who know and love Him are about the work and “the will of him that sent” them.
Take a look:
“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work” (John 4:34). Jesus then speaks of evangelism, something every one of His people are to be doing (John 4:34-38).
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” John 6:38
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40
“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” Matthew 12:30
Anyone not fully with Jesus, is against Him, the only Savior.
So you claim Christ as Savior but don’t participate in prayer, support, and Great Commission action? Time to repent for real. The fruit of your life is rotten. You are presently a Savior-rejecting, self-serving counterfeit.
Read 1 Corinthians 9. The first half is concerning our privilege to give to HIS work. Then the apostle Paul speaks of running the race, to the end, becoming all things to all men to see them saved, being crucified with Christ.
The more I read God’s Word, the more convinced I am that the Heaven bound remnant are known in that they are about the “Father’s business” —the Great Commission—and not their own (Luke 2:49). They have laid down and are forsaking their own lives in this fleeting world in their supreme love for Christ Jesus (Acts 20:24). Anyone claiming to be Christ’s and not doing, participating in the Great Commission command … clearly reveals that they are in need of repentance, before it’s too late. Jesus is not their “first love” —which means they are committing spiritual adultery on Christ, the Great and coming Bridegroom (Revelation 2:4-5). Repent and obey Him or perish.
If you are committed to Christ, with no exception, you are committed to studying, knowing, and walking out His Word. You are committed to carrying out the Savior’s Great Commission command.
YOUR PRAYER: Right now dear holy and heavenly Father, please begin a fresh work in this heart. May Your love fill this heart and may You alone be my “first love.” May the love in me for You burn. Let it far exceed all other loves and interests! In Jesus’ name. Amen.
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Dirty Ox Stalls bring Dividends [podcast]
An intriguing proverb that applies directly to our daily lives and the stewardship of the time our LORD has afforded us in this brief life. Gaining traction via the wisdom of our great God and King Jesus Christ. How to avoid spending our lives “spinning our wheels.”
“Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.” Proverbs 14:4
The blessing of a dirty ox stall…. What’s most important to God is productivity, not neatness, not tidy-ness, not a clean stall.
Here’s a proverb from the Holy Spirit and Solomon which breathe wisdom into our lives. Let’s read it again:
“Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.” Proverbs 14:4
The proverbs of the LORD we have in His Word hold hidden meaning which breathe wisdom into our lives.
A proverb is a figure of speech, words that impart truth by using natural illustrations to convey spirit truths.
Jesus taught in parables. Parables are earthly stories with heavenly meaning, divine wisdom to establish us in our relationship with Him as we love, worship and obey the LORD.
This is exactly what we have in Proverbs 14:4, where an ox and his stall are featured in order to convey the divine truth that productivity is more important to God than the pettiness of cleanliness.
The proverbs often use simple images to convey a deeper moral or practical lesson.
Active, working oxen bring dirt and dividends. Clean ox stalls glitter but produce no gold.
When commenting on this proverb, one man said: “Don’t be deterred by the dung.”
Fruitful saints aren’t known by how clean their house is but rather how full, how abundant their treasure in in Heaven (Matthew 6:19-21). Their prayer and work is focused upon pleasing their LORD Jesus and not with how clean their temporal living space looks, by how sparkling clean their life looks to mere sinful men.
One pastor notes the following about the divine truth imparted to us in Proverbs 14:4:
“There are some proverbs that stick in our heads more than others and this is one of them for me. The image is memorable and the lesson is unforgettable. Solomon paints the picture of a barn without oxen and because of no oxen, the stalls are clean and pristine. This is a barn that the perfectionist likes; a barn that can be organized, cleaned and maintained without interruption. This is a barn that the neat freak and the clean freak crave; a barn that they can come into and know that everything is clean and tidy. This is a barn that needs no work. This is a barn that, after working in the field, demands no additional time or effort to clean. This is a barn that needs no attending to after hours. It demands no thought when heading out of town. It never smells. It doesn’t even make a sound. There is no sickness in this barn nor does death ever visit its crib. This is a barn that requires no food or water and as such, it doesn’t require any constant removal of dung. It’s clean and pristine! … While that sounds appealing to the average man or woman, the average farmer doesn’t pursue an empty crib. He knows that the tradeoff is well worth it. It’s the cost of doing business in agriculture. He knows that he could farm his land on his own and that he could produce “some” increase on his own. He knows that he doesn’t need oxen to till the ground, to sow the seed or to harvest the crops but if he’s going to have “MUCH” increase, he needs oxen and there are no oxen that clean up after themselves.”
The mess is worth the money.
The dirt is worth the dividends it brings.
Dirty spaces bring special graces.
The progress and productivity are worth the pile of trash.
Men who are dirty from working all day will go home with fruitfulness for their family. They are satisfied and blessed to do so and so we wake up the next morning and gladly go do the same. The trade off that brings wages is worth it.
This proverb also brings into mind the harvest that can being produced by you alone, in contrast with the harvest produced having others to labor with you to bring forth “much increase.”
Also, by not inviting others to join you in doing our LORD’s work, we deprive them from being blessed to lay up treasure in Heaven as our LORD commanded each of us who His children to do (Matthew 6:19-21).
The following is from Josh Denhart:
“In ministry we think, “If you want a job done right, do it yourself.” You may avoid messes, but you have just stepped into the “Trap of the Clean Stall”.
Proverbs 14:4 reads, “Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox. “
In the ancient agrarian world, animals brought a massive advantage. To have an animal meant you could accomplish so much more. Today we refer to a car as having a certain amount of “horse power”. In times past, an animal brought with it a certain amount of power. Power to increase the harvest and get the job done. Here, the writer of Proverbs is referring to “Ox Power”. The power and advantage is brought through the strength of an ox.
The writer of Proverbs says that it is really a trade off. On one hand you get a significant increase through the strength of an ox, yet with it you get, poop. Yes, good, ol’ fashioned ox poop.
Goal: Huge Harvest
Let’s compare the alternative. You have no oxen, but you have an amazingly clean manger stall.
More harvest with a poopy stall vs. a perfectly clean stall and a diminished harvest.
Our goal is not a clean stall. Our goal is a huge harvest. A natural side effect of a huge harvests are messes. What do you want? Do you crave a super clean stall over a bountiful harvest? Listen, a tidy stall in and of itself is a bad trade for a compromised harvest.
Let me shoot straight with you. I have a well-managed case of OCD. I crave order. If you serve in children’s ministry, you probably do too. I hate disorder. Yet the calling of the harvest trumps our neurotic desire for order.
Do not fall into the trap of the clean stall.
You Can’t Do It Alone
We must define our goal for the harvest over and over! Our goal is reaching the lost through equipping the fold. Our ultimate goal is not order for order sake. Our goal is the good news of Jesus going deep into the hearts and heads of kids, which brings messes. Get used to it. And get over it.
We can have order as we achieve a large harvest, but uncomfort with messes can short circuit great harvests.
Let’s take this proverbial analogy a step further. You as a ministry leader are essentially the farmer. You can’t and don’t want to do it alone. You need help. Those willing to help you from a staff or a volunteer perspective can bring great strength and accomplish more for the harvest than you by yourself. And, yes, I am equating associates and volunteers to oxen.
The Harvest is Plentiful
Oxen and people are living beings. Both bring messes. Farming, like ministry, is just messy. Jesus said He came not for the healthy but for the sick. Sick people vomit physically and emotionally, have issues and need attention. That is our job. Years ago, someone sarcastically said, “Ministry would be great were it not for all these people!”
Listen, if you want order more than you want the harvest, you may find yourself doing it alone. Doing it alone equals to a field white for harvest with no one to get the job done. The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. More workers means more messes. We as farmers must manage the messes and rise above the stall to see the harvest.
Do you want a harvest more than you want order? Absolutely. Therefore, we had better embrace the reality of a poopy stall. Do not fall into the trap of the clean stall.”
One has to roll up his sleeves and get dirty to produce dividends to the glory of the divine.
Ever see construction works at the end of a work day? They are dirty and yet earned dollars, dividends. They will do it the next day also. Why? – because the trade off is productivity, earning that which is desirable.
Lots of work brings movement and a mess.
Lot’s of dirt when you much to diligently do and bring dividends.
A clean workspace brings no coin.
Do you want to work and get dirty, cause a mess, and yet make a profit? Or do you want to keep your place clean with the outcome being no coin?
The blessing of “much increase” comes at the expense of a clean crib, work space. It’s a bless-ed trade-off, right?
Personally, I could care less about a disheveled work place. My goal is to be fruitful, fruit-filled for Christ, bearing – “fruit … more fruit … much fruit.” (John 15)
In your business life, would you rather a disheveled work space and work to do, or a clean work space with no work?
It is better to have dirt to clean up with work that brings wages than to have a clean work place with no work.
Increase in material prosperity, productivity, fruitfulness comes by utilizing the oxen for labor and as a result there will be a mess made. The fruit produced far outweighs having to clean the stall, the work place.
“A barn can be kept cleanly swept where there are no oxen, but isn’t it better to have some dust and dirt around, knowing that the labor of an ox will lead to a bountiful harvest? The rewards of toil more than compensate for its disagreeable aspects.
This proverb is not intended to encourage homes or chapels that look like disaster areas. But it does discourage that passion for order and dustlessness that puts the brakes on progress and productiveness.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
Dust and dirt bring dividends.
Productivity makes for progress.
The grind brings the goods.
Labor brings some loot.
Someone has wisely stated:
“Salons always have hair on the floor.
Garages always have oil on the floor.”
The oxen serve a good purpose and produce productivity.
What is it to have a clean work place? That just means you aren’t being productive, you don’t have work that is bring wages and blessings.
“Straining at a gnat”…. Swallowing a Camel
This idiom Jesus uses means over-emphasizing the minors while under-emphasizing the majors, “the weightier matters of the law.”
Matthew 23
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. “
Martha and Mary – Mary had the Divine Priorities in their Rightful Place
“38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus’ feet, and heard his word.
40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
No, it’s not a sin to keep things clean, to be organized. Yet, at the judgment, Jesus is not going to say “Oh wow, you kept your living and workspace clean! Enter thou into the joy of the LORD.” No, but rather….
“His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” Matthew 25:21
At the coming judgment what we did for His glory, in His holy name, will be rewarded.
Matthew 25
“And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
Read John 15 and underline “fruit” and “more fruit” and “much fruit.” “Fruit” emanates from the life that is soundly grounded in an abiding relationship with Jesus Christ.
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.” John 15:16-17
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