Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy and Heretics
Does mankind have a sin nature, a bent toward evil? If so, where did that come from? What really happened at the fall? Can fallen mankind, by his own “natural ability”, self-will to overcome all sin? If so, WHY did Jesus come? (Galatians 2:21) | Charles Finney was a false teacher.
As a side, note: I’ve had people disown me for exposing Charles Finney which seems to a cult-like indoctrination and the corresponding devils (demons) that come with espousing “doctrines of devils.” Remember that “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils” are inseparable. Any person who believes a doctrine of devils has evil seducing spirit, a demon in his/her life.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Timothy 4:1-2
No one is guilty for someone else’s sin. God holds each individual guilty, fully responsible for their own sin (Ezekiel 18). Yet that in no way negates or changes the fact that something bad happened when man sinned against God in the Garden. If so, rip Romans 3, 5, and 7 out of your Bible. To deny such, to ignore such is the path to delusionment. This has tripped up many otherwise truth-seeking people today. The main source of this poison has come through the heretical ministries of men like Charles Finney.
“Salvation is the work of man.” Charles Finney
The no-sin-nature (“old man“, “flesh”)-to-crucify heresy is just another cross-less lie. It’s peddled by those who refuse to die and who pretend to be sinless perfection by means of their own “natural ability.” Beware of these antichrists.
If there were no inherent sinful bend, bent, iniquitous nature…. WHY O WHY would Paul have repeatedly taught that Christ’s disciples must “keep under” their “body” or flesh, the old man? (1 Corinthians 9:27) Why the cross if there is nothing to daily crucify? Someone is lying and it’s not Jesus and His holy apostles. Beware. Think biblically. | Judgment to Come Necessitates the Crucified Life [podcast]
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“My question is if Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the sins of the son and vice versa how does God count Adam’s sin against us?”
REPLY:
No, Ezekiel says the sins of the father are not the responsibility of the son and vice versa. That’s different. In other words the sins the father chooses to commit or walk in he shall long bear the judgment for. God says in Ezekiel 18:4 that each individual soul is HIS and will be rewarded according to the choices he makes while on earth. The father will not give account for the son nor the son for the father. Read Ezekiel 18. There were wicked kings with good children such as wicked king Abijam vs his son Asa who chose to do right. 1 Kings 15.
Ezekiel 18 is the same teaching as this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
Have you read Romans 5 lately? v12, 18-19
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22
All men are born after Adam and then choose Christ or to reject Him. Matthew 12:30; Mark 16:16, etc.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So, you believe that God has made us fallen? Back to my point, why IF we are made perfect by God Ps 139 then how are we born into a sinful nature? It is either constituted or practiced unto unto total depravity.
My other point was that the moral neutrality that God has given us at birth with the knowledge of good and evil swirling all round us. The weakness of the flesh to temptation and then sin, and then death is easily revealed.”
REPLY:
I would exhort you to put off the things you’ve learned and read Romans 7 afresh. Also Galatians 5:17-18. Call it what you wish, something is raging within, there is a war within. The Bible calls it the flesh, the old man which can only be put off by the crucified life (Romans 6; 8:11-14).
‘For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.’ Galatians 5:17-18
Why would Jesus mandate self must be denied if there were nothing to deny, to be crucified? (Luke 9:23-24)
You keep saying or asking if I believe God made us fallen. Sorry but I have repeatedly stated that God made us perfect. Genesis 1:31; Eccl 7:29 etc. Of his own God-given free will, man chose to sin against God – all by himself (Genesis 6:5, 12; Romans 3; James 1:13-15, etc.).
You don’t seem to realize that there was a fall in sin-less paradise, in the Garden. And you won’t until read Romans 3 and 5 and believe it. Begin with a prayer, asking the LORD to remove the poison you’ve been indoctrinated with by wicked men such as Charles Finney. v12, 18-19 of Romans 5 for sure.
What happened at the fall? Is the wages of sin not death? Romans 6:23 In the divine economy of God who is “Holy, holy, holy,” does sin not have a profound effect? Are you denying that sin affected mankind? Such would be diametrically opposed to and against the clear teaching of Romans 3, 5, 7.
You are only half way to the truth with the idea of “moral neutrality.” Such would deny lots of what Scripture informs us of concerning our heart being “only evil continually,” “desperately wicked,” etc. Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9
Those who do not study and know God’s Word thoroughly are susceptible to being deceived by the “many false prophets” that “are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Example: There’s a group of heretics that run around boldly declaring the lie that there is no sinful bent in believers. Nonsense. Mike Desario and Charles Finney were both false teachers.
These dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, mankind’s fallen sinful state, and what God has said about fallen mankind.
Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.
SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according to Christ (Matthew 21:31)! There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.
YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)
Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.
God made us one way, perfect. But then we sinned and something bad happened.
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31
God made mankind and said “it was very good.” Then man sinned and incurred death (Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 5:18-19). The details of the curse that came upon mankind when Adam and Eve sinned against God, are given to us in Genesis 3. Death came into man at the fall. Something happened, and it wasn’t good. Read Romans 7.
“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Ecclesiastes 7:29
God made us perfect but WE chose sin and fell and there are consequences for sin, right? And there’s also salvation, redemption, regeneration, choice, the cross, victory that we can choose to receive and walk in.
“Total depravity” is a false doctrine of calvinism which says “we are so sinful and we have no choice about anything. We have no ability to turn to God in repentance and faith to be redeemed, regenerated, made new creatures, temples of the Holy Spirit in Christ.” False.
We have the choice, the privilege to choose Christ and His cross to overcome all depravity, sin.
The Word says things like we are “desperately wicked” right? See Jeremiah 17:9. How about Genesis 6:5, 12 too, right? There’s Romans 3, 5, 6, 7 for the effects of sin, and 8 for the victory of Christ.
The no-sin-nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
In my understanding…. the no-sin-nature doctrine does not stand the test of the whole counsel of God’s Word. It is vehemently peddled by some today (Proverbs 14:12).
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so, so often? Read Romans 3, 5-7 afresh, carefully.
If there were nothing to “put off,” this divine command would not exist (Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:8-9). All the Scriptures on the cross, the crucified life, would be useless if there were nothing to crucify – there would be no cross to “take up” which would mean we call Jesus a lunatic and liar for having commanded us to take up the cross, to live a crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; 14:27).
Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!
How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? See Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8.
Mankind’s fallen state:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6)?
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21
Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).
Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.
“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”
REPLY:
Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT” (Romans 5:11).
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“So we have the same flesh as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”
REPLY:
Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.
Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42), but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Timothy 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.
You “think”? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”
REPLY:
You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her excuses was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.
I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.
I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.
In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc.. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.
As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.
Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.
I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.”
REPLY:
God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more” (John 8). You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Colossians 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Colossians 1:12-14).
You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Luke 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME” (Romans 7:21). “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Romans 6:-8; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17), and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature, and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10). Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v. 13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23
This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful” (Revelation 21:4-5).
Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.
Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become frustrated at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.” First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.
You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to ‘sinful nature’ and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.
It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are coming from.” ALL you need is God’s Word, and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Psalms. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Peter 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).
Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).
You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Proverbs 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.
MESSAGE RECEIVED:
“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.
I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.
And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”
REPLY:
You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.
Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.
What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).
Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM” (Romans 7:24). This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done” (Luke 22:42). Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.
Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18
“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer
To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it. I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).
Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”
Atonement is a “theory”? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain” (Galatians 2:21). It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error” (1 John 4:1-6).
It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.
God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29). He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9). Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28
God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world” (John 1:29). The singular use of “sin” here is telling.
If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)
todd
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Notes:
As should be obvious, we continue to war against this Charles Finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self
No propensity toward sin?
Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others” (Ephesians 2:1-3). See also Romans 7.
The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..
God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).
There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).
1 John 2:1-2
Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. Gal 3:3
Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.
Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).
Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).
Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).
The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.
***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13
Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19
One writer notes:
“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross. The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”
Abiding
The Cross and the Throne of Grace [podcast]
“Hid with Christ in God”
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.” Colossians 3:1-4
The safest place in the universe is in the cross of Christ: “your life is hid with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3).
Our place of protection is in the love walk with the LORD where we express our love for Him in obedience to Him. Jesus commanded that we deny self, take up the cross daily and follow Him. We are full of troubles and so it should be easy to relinquish all to Him!
“Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.” Job 14:1
In Christ alone is our rest from the toil of this life.
“Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.” Psalms 17:4
“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:14-16
“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” Hebrews 7:25
Prayer: Father, in Jesus’ name, please bring me to the end of sinful self. Rebuke and remove the foolishness of this heart! I love You LORD and thank You that I am crucified with You today and that You are raising up this life for Your glory alone. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
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Abiding
“I Will Uphold Thee with the Right Hand of My Righteousness” [podcast]
One source notes:
“‘I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness’ is a famous promise from the Bible found in Isaiah 41:10 (KJB). It is a comforting verse offering reassurance against fear, with ‘the right hand of my righteousness’ symbolizing God’s divine power, justice, and support.”
“And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” Galatians 6:9
Help Me Jesus!
“Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. … For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.” Isaiah 41:10, 13
“When we are in the fire of affliction it’s easy to feel afraid and wonder if God is there. Many of the great men of the Bible became discouraged and broken. But the secret was they took it to God in all honesty! In Job 3 he expressed a desire to die. But yet he said in Job 19:25 ‘For I know my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:’ David said in Psalm 56:9 ‘When I cry into thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me.’ And we know Jeremiah, Jonah, Elijah, etc. all had moments of despair and suffering, but the Lord continued to uphold and encourage them. Their faith did not waver even in the midst of doubt and confusion!” Karen Cochran
“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:31-39
“in thy presence is fulness of joy”
“Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.” Psalms 16:11
“at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore”
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Articles
Diminishing Returns or Divine Blessings? [podcast]
The Reason Your Bag has Holes in it [podcast]
Could our diminishing returns could be due to our refusal to put God first which would mean we are putting His work, His agenda, His stated will and mission – the Great Commission – first?
“The beginning of Haggai’s prophecy finds Israel returning to the land after 70 years under Babylonian oppression (God’s punishment for the sins of Israel’s leaders). Now, a new and younger generation of God’s people are working to rebuild God’s earthly dwelling place, the temple. Long before Haggai’s prophetic ministry, God had promised that when his own presence dwelled among his people, the life-giving power of God would flow from him into their land (Deut. 28:1-14, Haggai 1:1-4). So, in hopes of experiencing God’s promises after a long season of exile, the people begin to rebuild.
Unfortunately, the temple rebuilders quickly become distracted from the project at hand. They stop working on the temple to build their own houses (Hag. 1:1-4). Meeting their immediate needs takes priority over rebuilding God’s temple. But this priority doesn’t work out well for them in the end. Haggai points out that no matter how much they sow in their fields, the returned exiles are reaping less and less. Every day, their rations get thinner, and they feel just a little thirstier (Hag. 1:5-6). Haggai says their diminishing returns are a result of their failure to prioritize rebuilding the temple, the place of God’s presence (Hag. 1:10-11). But he also promises that if they recommit themselves to the temple project, all the blessings and life they hope for will return (Hag. 2:7-8, 18-19). This new generation listens to Haggai and starts making plans for the project’s next phase.”
The rebuilding of the temple in the days of Haggai the prophet is equivalent to the Great Commission work Christ sent us, His “ambassadors” to accomplish as we look for His soon return (2 Corinthians 5:20).
Who is it that gives men the “power to get wealth”? The LORD. Why does He do such? – “that he may establish his covenant.” (Deuteronomy 8:18)
“And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. 18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day. 19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. 20 As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.” Deuteronomy 8:17-20
Does God still keep His Word to bless those who put Him first with what He grants them the ability to bring in?
If a person chooses to repent of poor stewardship and conform to God’s Word, will the LORD not give that person grace to do the impossible? (Proverbs 3:9-10; Mark 10:27) Are you on your own with your finances? Or, are you dying to human reasoning and excuses and simply obeying the LORD? When we do simply obey Him, we can expect that He will undertake the cause and begin to do things that are miraculous. We see this throughout history, especially as recorded in Holy Writ. Remember the widow who had only a handful of food left to feed herself and her son? Remember who when she obeying the LORD that she was abundantly blessed? (1 Kings 17:10-16) The fact that some wolves have utilized this passage to garner gains for themselves, in no way negates the divine authority in and of this passage of truth. Will the LORD still bless? Has He changed or is our sin hindering His blessings? (Isaiah 59:1-2; Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:9)
“Ye looked for much, and, lo it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is waste, and ye run every man unto his own house.” Haggai 1:9
The people of God were experiencing diminishing returns due to their refusal to simply put God first in their lives, hearts, and therefore finances. The LORD blew on their finances and scattered them because they were not putting Him and therefore His work first – but rather their own lives and money were first. Repentance required (Revelation 2:4-5). Read Haggai 1. It’s a very revealing chapter.
The LORD’s Plan to Feed, Protect, and Bless His Saints and to Spread His Good News
It’s interesting and telling to compare the distribution of goods/resources/funds among the earliest believers and the way things are done today. Read Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-35. Today, as was so often foretold, the merchandising wolves are living ‘high off the hog’ when the Bible clearly instructs leaders never to “greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.”(Deuteronomy 17:17)
Of course, the Bible teaches that those whom God has called out are to be provided for (1 Cor. 9:1-14; 1 Tim. 5:17-18) and yet, today we have lavish wolves flaunting their multi-million dollar homes in gated communities (insulated from the little guys/the poor). This has nothing to do with and blatantly contradicts the lifestyles of Jesus and His holy apostles. This makes you wonder if those who enable these wolves have even read the Gospels! A second grader knows this is wrong.
Most of us have funded wolves only later to see the light of their greed later. So, should we stop obeying God by giving to further His work? Is it time we understand the LORD’s balance in these things?
Does the Almighty have or need American money in Heaven? No.
The LORD has a plan and following that plan (instead of our own) will result in glorifying Him and seeing many blessed.
***The true disciple of Jesus is not looking for the next trinket to waste his money on, but rather is about His Father’s business of putting that money toward God’s eternal kingdom! (Matthew 6:19-24)
Some who are greedy in heart, serving the god of mammon, do not like biblical teachings on stewardship. They will lash out against the messenger, when those demons that control them are enraged. There are more than 2,500 verses on stewardship in God’s Word and over half of Jesus parables are on stewardship so anyone endeavoring to disclose/teach the full counsel of God cannot dodge that topic.
Many today who name Christ as their Savior are saying in their hearts: “I have more important things to fund than YOUR work LORD! After all, the things in my life, to make me feel more comfortable in this fleeting world, are very important. Jesus, please don’t bother me any more concerning funding YOUR work. I have vacations to go on. I have to get a bigger, nicer car so that I, I, I, look better to mere men. I HAVE to run out and see the newest movies, buy the latest fashions, subscribe to magazines from the world to help me me me be in the know, eat out 20 times monthly, put more money in the bank for MY security, get a bigger house to make myself feel better …”
Which World are You Rich In?
“There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.” Proverbs 13:7
Praise God for those who give to the work of Christ! It is regrettable though that many of those who see God’s work and receive of Him through it as they see those workers of the LORD doing HIS work, do not contribute and do not agree with God that HIS workers “ARE worthy”of financial reward so they can be sustained and furthered in doing HIS HIS HIS work. Many are saying with their inaction that Christ’s workers are NOT worthy of their hire. They are saying “LORD, I know You said that Your servants ARE due financial reward so they can keep doing YOUR work, but I am too busy to take a moment to help, I am too strapped financially, after all, I have the cable TV bill to pay, I have to pay my mortgage, my rent, for food, daily coffee, golf, and for many other essential things. I really don’t think that Your work is important. Winning souls to Your eternal kingdom for who You bled and rose again is not important to me. I am too busy being entrenched in and loving this present sinful world. So, Your kingdom, Your work, and Your people will have to wait till I have so much money that I can keep doing these important things that are important to ME in this life and also throw a token tip your way.”
When is the last time you read 1 Corinthians 9:1-14 and 1 Timothy 5:17-18? Do you know what the LORD is teaching us in these important passages? How can we expect to be blessed of Him if we ignore His instructions?
It is clear that God will bless those who agree with Him – in heart, mind, and in action. We will find amazing, supernatural blessings in our lives if we will put Jesus “first” in our stewardship, in our finances (Matthew 6:33; 2 Corinthians 9:6-11; Proverbs 3:10-11). Did He not promise to bless us if we put Him first which means putting His work as a top priority?
The “double honour” financial reward is due to called out Gospel workers and that’s the instruction of the One who has called out and set those workers apart to do (1 Timothy 5:17-18). That money should be there and that’s why God says that those who labor in His Word – learning and feeding His sheep – are to receive “double honour” so that they do not have to be interrupted in doing HIS work.
Jesus says that what we do with our monies is a direct reflection of who we truly love, worship, and serve – self or the Savior. “For where your treasure is THERE will your heart be also.” (Matthew 6:19-24)
Who has God put in your life to feed you HIS Word? What does the Bible say to do to those who feed you God’s Word? (Galatians 6:6)
Is God calling you to get into agreement with His revealed mind? Is He calling you to count His work as a high priority in your life? Will He not open His windows of blessings upon your life? (Proverbs 3:9-10; 2 Corinthians 9:6-11) Will His kingdom blessings now be added to your life if you truly and practically put Him first? (Matthew 6:33) Will your barns not be “filled with plenty”?
“Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.” Proverbs 3:9-10
If you are upset, I am sorry. I sure hope this never has to be said again other than in the general teaching of the full-counsel of God which includes the important topic of stewardship.
“But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.” 2 Corinthians 9:6-11
Do you begin to realize what is at stake here? Do we begin to understand the implications of sinful omission? Do we begin to realize what great rewards we are forfeiting?
Aren’t the bank accounts that are connected to the work of the LORD worthy to be filled in order to supply for His work to be done?
Are you doing your part to fund those who are truly fulfilling a New Testament purpose?
Is the feeding of the LORD’s people important to you? Do unreached precious souls for whom Christ bled and rose again matter?
Jesus says “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17) Are you personally interested in Christ and His sheep? Are you concerned that His sheep will be fed (nourished) and that more souls will be won to Him before it’s too late? What work or labor in this fleeting, sinful world could possibly be more important than that of the LORD’s business? Are you prayer for His laborers and supporting the work of Jesus? (Matthew 9:35-38)
Do we fit into that last day’s prophetic category of those who have a mere “form of godliness” yet deny the power, the divine authority of God to reign in our daily lives? Are we “lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God” and are we those who are “lovers of their own selves, covetous …”? May the LORD rebuke and change us now! (2 Timothy 3:1-8)
God is able!
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“I Will Uphold Thee with the Right Hand of My Righteousness” [podcast]
Diminishing Returns or Divine Blessings? [podcast]
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