Favorite Eternal Security “Proof” Text? [podcast]
Excerpt from the book Lie of the Ages
Does John 10:27-29 Prove “Eternal Security”?
WHO are Jesus’ Sheep? Defined by, in God’s Word.
John 10:27-29
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” ~ John 10:27-29
Verse 27 is the condition necessary to appropriate the promises of verses 28-29.
Those who believe that a man can never lose his salvation, use this John 10:28-29 text but ignore the prerequisite, the divinely given condition – v27. Watch this:
Firstly, in this passage Jesus identifies those sheep whom He makes the security promise to. He says, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” In this we see one part divine and two parts the responsibility of the individual:
- “I know them”—the divine part toward those who are truly in Christ, presently abiding (v. 27)
- Those who are His sheep “hear” His “voice” and “follow” Him—the individual’s responsibility (v. 27)
The promise to be kept is a conditional promise which requires that we choose to continue to hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27-29). Many today wrongly detach our LORD’s words in verse 27 from verses 28-29. In doing so, they perpetrate their “eternal security” mythology.
The problem for the eternal securists is that v27 has been intentionally been ignored…. It’s the actual condition Jesus gives for receiving the assurance promises He then gives in v28-29.
Those who seek to spread the “once saved always saved” heresy use John 10:28-29 to their advantage and conveniently ignore the preceding words of Christ in verse 27. Verses 28-29 are promises of security to those who have been genuinely born again and are currently abiding in Christ – hearing His voice and following Him (John 15:1-6). Many ignore the previous qualifying words (v. 27) of Jesus where Christ tells us that only those who are hearing His voice and following Him are promised that they are secure and will never perish. There is a condition to being secure in Christ—knowing Him—which requires continuing to abide in Him, hear His voice and follow Him (see also John 15).
“Jesus will neither leave us nor forsake us, but we can leave and forsake Him by choosing our sins OVER His love, grace and mercy!” Dino Filardo
Eternal securists have been taught to selectively interpret Scripture while ignoring mountains of Bible truth, in order to come to a predetermined conclusion.
Many a false teacher has built his own ministry empire dishonestly peddling this passage. Take a closer look. Anchor the promise to be kept in verses 28-29 on verse 27 where Jesus identifies who His sheep are – those who hear and continue to hear His voice and continue to follow Him (present tense). The promise to be kept is a glorious and yet conditional promise which requires that the individual recipient of the salvation gift of God chooses to continue to hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27-29). Many today wrongly detach our LORD’s words in verse 27 from verses 28-29 of John 10. In doing so, they perpetrate their “eternal security” or otherwise called “once saved always saved” mythology. Beware as this was the first lie Satan told mankind, which led to the fall (Genesis 2:17; 3:4).
Instead of synthesizing the whole of Scripture, false teachers isolate certain verses for their own self-serving agenda and purpose (2 Corinthians 2:17, etc.).
The sheep Jesus’ promises are going to be kept are those who endure to the end, abide (remain) with Him (John 15:1-6). The Great Shepherd defines His sheep as those who are presently hearing His voice and following Him (present tense). John 10:27-29
It’s not difficult to mislead people in the direction of the sinful nature of their hearts – because then they can evade truly repenting which is a major life change and necessity for salvation. This is why Paul foretold of this hour and how men would “heap to themselves (false) teachers having itching ears.” (2 Timothy 4:3) “Itching ears” here represents unrepentant hearts.
OSAS people make a vain attempt at redefining the words of Scripture to fit their own self-serving agenda of lukewarmness, cross-less rebellion. For example they hyper-focus on “eternal” in the term “eternal life” while intentionally refusing to synthesize the whole of what Scripture states. They hyper-focus on the word “gift” and teach that a gift could never be lost which the rest of Scripture does not agree with. They then take the word “sealed” and make it to be permanent which it cannot possibly be because the same Greek word for “sealed” is used of Jesus’ tomb which we all know was NOT permanently sealed (Matthew 27:66). In this they bear false witness against the LORD and act like some Scriptures are more divinely inspired than others. This practice reveals the evil and deceit of their own hearts. Not just some Scripture in the Bible but rather “ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God…” (2 Timothy 3:16-17) It must all be synthesized, put together, compared (1 Corinthians 2:13). Error will result in the hearts and lives of those who do not search, study, and revere “ALL scripture” in God’s Word.
Eternal security deceivers don’t want to talk about Bible verses that contradict and expose their proof texts. You see, they don’t want to get awaken by the truth to the scam they’ve bought into. The wolves who they gullibly believe instead of God’s Word, taught them to cry “context, context” all while THEY are the beguilers who are taking Scripture out of context. Just like the demonic democrats in America, they accuse their adversaries of the exact thing THEY themselves are guilty of (Romans 2:1-3).
YOU are defending OSAS and yet you gave no Bible verses? Self-deception. If “once saved always saved” were true, WHY O WHY didn’t God tell us? Such a term, phrase, or concept appear no where in Scripture and the verses you use to “prove” it are taken out of their context. OSAS is undeniably the very first lie Satan ever told and it led to the fall of mankind from a HOLY God (Genesis 2:17; 3:4). If OSAS isn’t a doctrine of devils, nothing is! (1 Timothy 4:1-2)
Is the unchanging, Almighty God no longer “Holy, holy, holy” now that He sent His only begotten Son? (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8) If He’s still holy, no unrepentant person with sin will enter His holy Heaven (Revelation 21:8, 27, etc.).
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” Hebrews 12:14
HOW is it that so many treat the words of JESUS recorded in John 10 more divinely authoritative than the words of JESUS recorded in John 15? False teachers.
Most of the dupes who cite John 10:28-29 to “prove” they can never lose their salvation, 1. Don’t even know what the preceding verse says (v27), and 2. Have no clue what JESUS says in John 15:6.
“If a man abide (remain) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” John 15:6
In this John 10 passage used by the unconditional eternal security crew to peddle their wares, some neglect to look closely at verse 27 to see who Jesus was specifically speaking to when He promised “they shall never perish.” “They” refers to those who “hear my voice” and “follow me.” According to verse 27 the promise of eternal security is conditional. Assurance of salvation is only to those who are presently following Christ. In verse 27 we learn that protection from judgment to come is only to those who are currently 1) hearing His voice, 2) known by Him, and 3) following Him. This is consistent with the message seen in the whole of Holy Writ.
WHO did Jesus say His true sheep are?
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (Jn. 10:27). According to these words of Christ, those who “know” Jesus and “follow” Him are given the promise that they will “never perish.” As long as the follower hears His voice and follows Him, they are assured “eternal life.” This is exactly what the Son of God taught just a few chapters later in John 15 where He says that if a branch that is in Him does not remain or abide in Him, that person will be cut off and cast into the fire (hell).
Those who abide or remain under the shadow of His holy and protective wing shall remain secure in Him (Ps. 91:1). The Good Shepherd here said: “Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” No man can pluck us out of His protection except ourselves by our own decisions. We who are abiding are protected from the snare of other men drawing us away as we remain walking with the Son of God. If you’re tucked, you won’t get plucked. If you’re not tucked under the wing of intimacy with Jesus, you will, can, and are likely to be plucked out of His holy hand by your own sinful unbelief. The LORD told us “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown” (Rev. 3:11).
It’s also notable that those who emphasize John 10 to convince themselves and others that they are “eternally secure”, don’t even know much less acknowledge the words of the Savior in John 15:1-6.
Telling.
“If a man abide (remain) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” John 15:6
Jesus taught repeatedly that some would not continue to follow Him (“abide”) and hear His voice and would consequently “fall away.” There is record of some who once believed and then stopped believing (Lk. 8:13; 13:23-30; Jn. 6:66; Acts 8:14-23).
WHY do eternal securists get all upset when their fairy tale is exposed? Well, they are hiding behind the thin veneer of this heresy, feeling all secure, emboldened to live as they please, feeling assured in their lukewarmness and sin … denying Jesus instead of self, refusing to take up the cross that Jesus commanded all who would follow Him truly (Luke 9:23-24). Christ’s apostle Paul speaks of self-serving “enemies of the cross of Christ.” (Philippians 3:18-19) What’s behind this myth? The Psychology of Eternal Security [book]
Another Example of the Twisting of Scripture
The eternal securists seek to justify their OSAS heresy by misusing the following passage…. but in this Paul is speaking of those who go to Heaven, the judgment of saints, and not those who fell away and won’t be there because they will be in hell. They will not be present when this happens….
“Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
One More….
Common Objection to Conditional Eternal Security….
“What about Romans 8:38-39 where it says nothing can separate us from the love of God?”
REPLY:
Simple: Notice the word LOVE not life. God will love us all the way into hell if we choose not to repent. His soul will even “weep in secret places for your pride” which comes before destruction (Jeremiah 13:17). The LORD is “Holy, holy, holy,” He’s just, and He will not ever coexist with sin. See the fall of lucifer (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:13-19; Luke 10:18). The wages of sin is still death and the LORD will damn every soul that dies in sin, with no exception (Psalms 5:4; Habakkuk 1:13; Isaiah 6:3; Romans 6:23; Revelation 4:8; 21:8; 22:11, etc.). Read Jesus’s parable of the prodigal son Lk 15. Did the father love and miss his son? Yes. Did the father (represents God) go chase him down? No. The son who departed had to choose to return. Much truth there. Speaking of Romans, read 11:20-22. Now read 2 Peter 2:20-22 and the book of Hebrews.
1 John 2:19 is often also utilized to “prove” eternal security. Not.
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” 1 John 2:19
Interestingly, the word “never” does not appear in this verse above which is so often used to “prove” OSAS. Let’s read it again with an objective mind. And, also remember what Jesus says about the primary importance of His teaching of the seed and the soil, the sower and the Word:
“And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?” Mark 4:13
The honest student of the whole Counsel of God’s Word knows that numerous clear Bible truths reveal that a saved person can turn away from the LORD, so we know that the apostle John could not possibly be saying that a saved person could never depart from the LORD. In my opinion, this verse is the best argument the eternal security proponent has, yet it’s not enough. There must be two or three witnesses and not just one (2 Cor. 13:1). After a closer examination of this text, one will find that verse 19 does not teach or justify “once saved always saved.” When any one verse is taken to the exclusion of the whole Word of God, one will certainly misunderstand the doctrine of the LORD which can only be apprehended by “study.” (2 Tim. 2:15) This verse is like any other verse of Scripture – it must be taken in light of the entire Counsel of God. The context to be considered is 1 John 2:18-29).
In examining the context in which 1 John 2:19 is set, we see that false teachers whom John calls “many antichrists,” had come and were telling these believers that Jesus was not the Christ (v22).
Let’s look at verses 18 and 19 together:
“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” 1 John 2:18-19
Note here that it is specifically of these “antichrists” that John speaks and says that “if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
John was speaking of those who were once saved but then departed from the faith (1 Tim 4:1), they believed and then fell away (Luke 8:12-13) …. then departed from the believers in that fellowship.
Teddy Caldwell writes:
“OSAS insists that those are professing believers, but 1 John 2:18 says such people are antichrists. 1 John 2:22 says an antichrist is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Anyone who does that isn’t a believer and isn’t even trying to look like one.”
Concerning 1 John 2:19, Donald Stamps, in the Life in the Spirit Study Bible, writes:
“‘THEY WENT OUT FROM US.’ When the antichrists departed from their fellowship with true believers, they were not in a saving relationship with Christ. This allows for two possibilities: (1) They were never true believers to begin with, or (2) they had once been in a saving relationship with Christ but afterward abandoned their faith in Christ.”
Right here in verse 24 of this passage we see the doctrine of personal responsibility to “remain” in faithful obedience to the LORD or lose one’s place with God (1 Cor. 15:2; Gal. 6:9; Col. 1:23). This is a teaching found throughout Holy Writ – the divine requirement to stay saved or lose all in eternity, “suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (Jude 7)
“Let that therefore abide (remain) in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. IF (denotes condition) that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.” 1 John 2:24-25
Verse 24 alone tells us that we cannot think that verse 19 means that someone who is at some point in right standing with God can never depart from Him and lose out. Also, verse 25 tells us that “eternal life” (not just rewards) is at stake and the promise contingent upon the believer abiding or remaining in that “which ye have heard from the beginning” which is the Gospel. “Eternal life” is assured as long as one is remaining rooted in Jesus Christ. This is the overwhelmingly consistent message of God’s Word.
In verse 26 John says “These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.” Verse 19 is written about the deceivers who sought to “seduce” these disciples John was addressing and not of true believers.
With all of Scripture in consideration, we can conclude that 1 John 2:19 is a specific example and not a rule of doctrine.
If you truly wish to search out this matter, let me encourage you to closely examine, break down and study this entire text (1 Jn. 2:18-29). In order to ascertain truth, one must compare the verse in question with all other related Scriptures, beginning with the context in which the verse is set (Isa. 28:9-10; 1 Cor. 2:13).
Go here for more on the misuse of 1 John 2:19.
Eternal Security / OSAS Exploded
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Apostasy
8 Classes of Sinners Guaranteed to Spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire [podcast]
8 Classes of Sinners Guaranteed to Spend Eternity in Hell
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
“The second death”
[which is the second death] The second death is the lake of fire, or the second separation from God in hell (Rev_2:11; Rev_20:14; Rev_21:8).
Of Revelation 21:8, Adam Clarke writes the following:
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful – Δειλοις· Those who, for fear of losing life or their property, either refused to receive the Christian religion, though convinced of its truth and importance; or, having received it, in times of persecution fell away, not being willing to risk their lives.
And unbelieving – Those who resist against full evidence. And sinners, και ἁμαρτωλοις, is added here by about thirty excellent MSS., and is found in the Syrian, Arabic, some of the Slavonic, and in Andreas and Arethas. On this evidence Griesbach has admitted it into the text.
The abominable – Εβδελυγμενοις· Those who are polluted with unnatural lust. (sodomites, lesbians Romans 1)
And murderers – Φονευσι· Those who take away the life of man for any cause but the murder of another, and those who hate a brother in their heart (.
And whoremongers – Πορνοις· Adulterers, fornicators, whores, prostitutes, and rakes of every description.
Sorcerers – Φαρμακοις· Persons who, by drugs, philtres, fumigations, etc., pretend to produce supernatural effects, chiefly by spiritual agency.
Idolaters – Ειδωλολατραις· Those who offer any kind of worship or religious reverence to any thing but God. All image worshippers are idolaters in every sense of the word.
And all liars – Και πασι τοις ψευδεσι· Every one who speaks contrary to the truth when he knows the truth, and even he who speaks the truth with the intention to deceive; i.e., to persuade a person that a thing is different from what it really is, by telling only a part of the truth, or suppressing some circumstance which would have led the hearer to a different end to the true conclusion. All these shall have their portion, το μερος, their share, what belongs to them, their right, in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. This is the second death, from which there is no recovery.
“21:8 But not all are overcomers. Some are cowardly, afraid to confess Christ; unbelieving, unwilling to trust the sinner’s Savior; sinners, all those who remain in their sins, whether guilty of the gross iniquities listed here or not; abominable, given over to disgusting immorality; murderers, malicious and savage killers; sexually immoral, practicing fornication and other forms of sexual sins; sorcerers, those who traffic with evil spirits; idolaters, insulting God by worshiping images; and all liars, compulsive deceivers. These will be assigned to the lake of fire as their final destiny.” Believer’s Bible Commentary
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. … 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:10, 14-15
One source notes the following:
“Brimstone and fire” refers to the fiery imagery of divine judgment and eternal punishment found in the Bible. It symbolizes God’s wrath, often describing the fate of sinners in hell, and is a phrase used in religious sermons and literature. “Brimstone,” an old word for sulfur, is a key component of this imagery, evoking a smell and heat associated with inescapable, fiery destruction.
Biblical origins
Old Testament:
The phrase originates in the King James translation of the Old Testament, used to describe God’s destruction of enemies. A key example is the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
New Testament:
The imagery is used to describe eternal damnation, a common theme in both the Old and New Testaments. In the book of Revelation, for example, it describes those who worship the beast being tormented in a lake of fire and brimstone.
Etymology:
The phrase is a calque of the Biblical Hebrew and Ancient Greek words for “sulfur and fire”.
Geological evidence:
Archaeological and geological evidence of sulfur deposits and charred formations in areas like the Dead Sea region have been noted as consistent with biblical descriptions of fire and sulfur-related events.”
“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12
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Articles
The Purpose of Elders in Christ’s Body [podcast]
There is no more important work transpiring in the earth today than the work of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Matthew 9:35-38; 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6, etc.).
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” Hebrews 13:20-21
In short, the authentic under-shepherd ordained of Jesus Himself (John 15:16), will give up his life in this fleeting world for the sheep of Christ – just as the Great Shepherd of the sheep did on the cross. Such a divinely called-out man, will teach only God’s pure Word and watch for the souls of the LORD’s people (Hebrews 13:7, 17). He will take up the cross – live the crucified life – and therefore ministry will not be about them but rather about Jesus and His beloved sheep for whom He shed His blood and is soon returning (Philippians 3:17-21).
Also in Hebrews 13 …. The true elder of Christ will, according to Hebrews 13, do two things:
- Speak the pure Word of God to you and get you into it:
“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation (their way of life).” Hebrews 13:7
2. Will in the fear of God pray for and “watch for your soul.”
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” Hebrews 13:17
In review, just WHAT are the earmark fruits of true under-shepherds as opposed to the many wolves among us?
- True under shepherds relentlessly teach God’s Word – “who have spoken unto you the word of God.” (Hebrews 13:7)
- They are there for you! – “they watch for your souls.” (Hebrews 13:7)
IF they aren’t preaching God’s pure Word to you, fearing God, not you…. and watching for your eternal soul, they are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Repent and run to Jesus beloved.
Let me add that if they are using a fake “bible” instead of the King James Bible, that should be a clue to the darkness they walk in (Matthew 7:16, 20).
Elders are ordained of God and yet never to take His place nor to negate our own personal responsibility to seek God daily for ourselves. Yet, we do not need a preacher. Why? – because we each have a Bible. Read it. We don’t need a preacher to tell us what the Bible says! Read it for yourself, learning of the LORD yourself. Today is your day to take personal responsibility to seek God for yourself! Stop depending on a preacher or preachers. Devour God’s Word daily. Jesus taught personal responsibility and the essential nature of it when He said “Take heed to yourselves” (Luke 21:34-36) …… Paul instructed Timothy to “Study” the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).
Today we have all around us church-goers who are not possessed with a heart after God, do not diligently study and read and live out Christ’s Word. This lukewarm, world-loving fruit clearly reveals the prophesied priesthood of wolves (1 Chronicles 16:11; Psalms 27:4, 8; Matthew 24:11; Acts 13:22; 2 Timothy 3:13; 1 John 4:1, etc.). Until a pastor has provoke you to get into God’s Word for yourself, to seeking His holy face daily in prayer, he has failed. If has has diligently, biblically sought to do these essentials, and people have refused God’s Word, refused to seek His holy face continually, the blood is off of his hands (Ezekiel 3:18-20).
“When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” Ezekiel 3:18-20
When you check the fruit of a fellowship, check, discern if the individual saints are vibrant in Christ, diligently seeking His holy face, in His Word, living a life of prayer, denying self, taking up the cross daily, and following Jesus. This sounds like what we see of the earliest saints in the book of Acts, right? Boom. Remember how Peter preached and 8,000 were saved and how the Berean believers put Paul’s teaching to the Scriptural test? (Acts 2-4; 17:10-11, etc.).
Sadly, usually you see a bunch of people who are proud to be a member of a church with none of the biblical fruit list above.
The apostle Paul kept a close watch on those he oversaw.
“For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.” 1 Thessalonians 3:5
Having a physical “church” building makes no mere man, no supposed elder, an official representative of Heaven. Feeding the sheep of Christ with His pure Word and equipping them “for the work of the ministry” is the mark of a true under-shepherd of Christ (John 21:15-17; Ephesians 4:11-12, etc.). Discern. Beware. Inspect the fruit. Jesus nor any of His holy apostles collected a penny to build a building called “church.” No, they went to the people – to serve them instead of having the people come to them.
Let’s test that…. How many people do you personally know who are good church members, Sunday morning church attenders, and ALSO true, daily disciples whom God is using everywhere they go? Think about that…. How many true disciples of Jesus do you know who are involved in a Sunday morning church program? If you personally know even one true disciple, that’s a miracle and in spite of his attendance at the Sunday morning circus called “church.”
Unlike Christ’s apostle Paul, most in leadership today foster in their prey a dependence on THEM and their church business instead of prayerfully, biblically exhorting people to depend on Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:29-2:5).
Like Christ’s apostle Paul, the true elder labors relentlessly to see you grounded in Christ – not in him or his ministry or church, but in CHRIST! Listen closely:
“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.” Colossians 2:6-7
It simply doesn’t matter what else he’s doing, if any minister is not prayerfully, biblically, perpetually rooting and grounding you in Christ, he’s a fraud. Run.
Like Jesus and His holy apostle Paul, part of grounding you ever more deeper in Christ, is warning you to “beware” of the “many false prophets.” (Matthew 24:11)
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:” Colossians 2:8-10
SO, he’s not exhorting and admonishing you to seek and know the LORD in an ever deepening fashion? He’s not equipping, maturing you “for the work of the ministry” and yet you still consider him one of the LORD’s under-shepherds? He’s not getting YOU into the Word (2 Timothy 2:15) for yourself? That’s a false leader who is entertaining the goats instead of feeding and equipping the saints! Run! (See Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6, etc.)
False leaders divert the attention, the heart affections, the resources, and the energy of God’s people away from Christ and simple obedience to His Great Commission mandate. YOU are personally responsible! Waste is rampant! If you support, “bid God speed” (2 John 7-11) to a false leader, false ministry, then you will perish with them!
The divine purpose for elders is not to dominate nor entertain the LORD’s sheep but rather to help their joy in Christ! Get to know this verse saints:
“Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.” 2 Corinthians 1:24
There is the citing of elders in the Word and their divine purpose – to humbly serve God by helping His sheep grow in the knowledge and grace of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-15; 1 Peter 5:1-6).
Christ’s apostle Paul desired the “perfection” (maturity in Christ) of the people of God (Ephesians 4:11-15).
“For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.” 2 Corinthians 13:9
Like Apollos, Elders among God’s people must remain teachable to God’s Word and simply and only teach and preach his word (Proverbs 9:9; Acts 18:26). Elders true to the LORD act on his behalf and never out of a personal agenda for self gain (2 Corinthians 3:5; 4:5, etc.). They live the crucified life (Galatians 2:20).
We are to humble ourselves like Apollos did and learn the way of our God more perfectly from each other, via God’s Word – as Apollos learned it more fully from Aquila and Priscilla (Acts 18:24-28).
Beloved Apollos was a very effective, anointed communicator of God’s Word and yet, was in need of maturing, of being perfected. So, God sent to him an elder and his wife, Aquila and Priscilla. Apollos humbly received the LORD’s elders and His grace to grow in Christ:
“And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” Acts 18:24-26
The vast majority of “churches” that meet in “church buildings” are simply and merely conducting “church services” where they entertain their prey. They are not equipping the saints for the work of the ministry and therefore discerned as being counterfeit (Ephesians 4:11-13). If they were, there would be salty disciples in their midst who go forth to minister Christ’s kingdom blessings wherever they go. Not even a trace of this transpiring in the apostate modern church world. Run. Run. Run.
The Purpose of Kingdom Elders:
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting (equipping, maturing) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-12
Philip Lye writes: “Paul says in Ephesians 4, that he gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. He expressly says these people are given to mature the saints, to equip them for their ministry and growth in Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that many false prophets and messiahs will arise deceiving many. They are simply functions that God has given and not titles which the proud use to strut about like a peacock. Most of these people that I have met (and I have seen a lot of famous ones) are false, proud and arrogant and not servants of the the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen humble genuine ones who move mightily in truth, calling people to repentance and right relationship with Jesus and a demonstration of genuine miracles and wonders. They are to be genuine servants to God’s people.”
VIEW this following verse from Solomon’s day in light of our calling and work till Christ returns:
“Now all the work of Solomon was prepared unto the day of the foundation of the house of the LORD, and until it was finished. So the house of the LORD was perfected.” 2 Chronicles 8:16
Let’s read a larger portion of this important passage in Ephesians 4. God fearing under-shepherds must prayerfully labor for and be intent upon seeing God’s people grow in the grace of Christ to the full stature of maturity He has ordained!
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-15
The Error of Using Titles in the Modern Church World
God sovereignly and exclusively ordained MEN to feed, lead, and equip His saints (Ephesians 4:8-11). Women are called to and seen doing many ministry functions in the New Testament but never as a leader in a position specifically designated in Scripture for men.
Repent. The American “church” is a catastrophe of spineless moral-coward Ahabs who’ve allowed, suffered women to lead, and the fall out is incalculable (Revelation 2:20-24).
GOD’s men must never allow women to lead where they (men) are called to lead (1 Timothy 2:12; 3:2; Revelation 2:20-24).
To put yourself under the ministry of a woman who is acting as an elder among God’s people, is to defy Christ, and to agree with Christ’s arch enemy and his Jezebels and to bring severe destruction on the people of God (1 Timothy 2:12; 3:2; Revelation 2:20-24).
JUST because a woman can run her mouth and even genuinely have a gift of the Spirit DOES NOT mean she’s an elder in the body of Christ – which is divinely reserved non-negotiably for men, male elders (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 3:2). | Beware of Scripture-Twisting Jezebels
We must humbly confess before our LORD and God that we have nothing and are nothing without Him!
“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” John 15:5
God can use us in spite of having a seminary or Bible college background…. If we will truly denounce it, lay it all down, and truly submit to Him – just like Paul did (Philippians 3). Otherwise we will join the epidemic of false prophets who build their own kingdoms in this fleeting life and spend eternity in hell (2 Peter 2:1-3). Paul counted his “higher education” as “dung” to know and serve Christ (Philippians 3).
BIBLICALLY SPEAKING, BY DEFINITION, ELDERS ARE NOT SEMINARIANS (UNLESS THEY’VE DENOUNCED SUCH) BUT RATHER PROVEN MEN OF GOD WHO HAVE WALKED WITH CHRIST FOR SOME TIME AND ARE SEASONED IN DOCTRINE AND GODLY CHARACTER AND ABLE TO HELP ASSIST OTHER BELIEVERS GROW IN GRACE (Philippians 3).
In part, we can be transformed in our thinking/perspective of what leaders are seen to be in the apostate modern church vs the biblical definition of an elder which is a humble servant with sound doctrine and a godly life (1 Timothy 3; 2 Timothy 3:10; Titus 1-2, etc.).
Christ’s kingdom ordination is not like the ordinations of many denominations….. To ordain seems to mean to recognize the work of GOD in a man’s life and to set him forth into ministry as by the leading of the Spirit of God.
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” John 15:16
ORDAIN
G5087
τίθημι
tithēmi
tith’-ay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): – + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.
Total KJV occurrences: 96
“Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.” Acts 13:1-3
Denominations of mere men set their elders forth to do THEIR bidding, to perpetuate their own cause and existence, to build their false church businesse$. God fearing assemblies of the saints simply recognize Christ’s work in a man and prayerfully send him forth to do GOD’s work. They worship and exalt Christ whole heartedly!
MINISTRY is about feeding sheep, not entertaining goats (John 21:15-17). So, when you see a “minister” entertaining, you know he himself is a goat (1 Corinthians 1:29-2:5).
What True Elders Teach
“For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.” 2 Corinthians 4:5
THERE is nothing good in us except Christ. We are not featured but JESUS is. “We preach CHRIST crucified” (1 Cor 1:23). All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and HE is the One and only righteous Redeemer whom we communicate to others (1 Cor 9:16; Rom 7:18 etc.).
Jesus’ true disciples are crucified vessels who preach with His authority, unlike the lame leaders we have today (Matthew 7:28-29). True Gospel preaching rocks the world of those who hear it – it never coddles people in their sin. That’s the work of wolves! Beware!
Godly Elders Teach God’s People to Discern
“And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.” Ezekiel 44:23
Why don’t some leaders teach discernment?
“Anyone that profits off of you being blind, will never teach you or inspire you to see.” unknown
Any man in leadership who doesn’t warn you of false prophets as did Christ and His apostles, is a wolf who does not want you to see who he truly is.
God’s people are to continue to learn to discern – to test, to weigh all things against Holy Scripture. Ungodly elders have the “I said it so it’s true” notion. Or the “We’ve always taught that” or “That’s what we believe” philosophy. Not. What saith the Scriptures is what every true follower of Jesus asks, as he searches God’s Word to ascertain truth. Every student of Christ should become extremely familiar with Acts 17:10-11.
QUESTION RECEIVED:
“I am curious as to how one man is considered the other’s elder? Do they attend the same church gathering thus, he is a church elder or is it through willful submission of the younger as an understudy or simply due to the fact that one man is older?”
REPLY:
Great question brother. Elder, biblically seems to mean older and more seasoned in God’s Word, having walked with the LORD longer. Two views come to mind: 1. The organic body of Christ, the kingdom relationships we have, where there appear men in our lives who are seasoned and there’s an automatic elder/young relationship (that’s how it is here)… and 2. Where a person attends a church group and they have their elder in a more organized fashion as you mentioned…. that help?
Nothing brings definition to this like God’s Word as you know…. and notice how it begins with “The elders which are AMONG you”….
“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:” 1 Peter 5:1-6
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ALAN E CASSIDY
May 22, 2023 at 7:50 pm
The gift and calling of God are without repentance.
John 3:16. “..whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life..” Life that lasts until your next sin is not “everlasting life”. Every born-again Christian child of God has to be subject to God’s chastisement. What’s that for if not for sin? To claim sinlessness is a sin of pride.
“The wages of sin is death”.
“f we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
Todd
May 23, 2023 at 1:56 am
All known sin must be accounted for. No one said people who are saved don’t sin. V9 of 1 John 1 says that “IF we confess our sins” God will forgive them. Read Romans 6 hoenstly. Jesus did not die to give His people a license to sin but rather the grace, the divine power over sin (Rom 6:14; Titus 2:11-12).
WHAT church/people is Jesus returning for Alan?
“Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” Ephesians 5:25-27
All who are saved and yet “fall away” will go to hell eternally.
All who are enduring to the end will confess and never cover their sins with the “eternal security” fairytale. – “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” Proverbs 28:13
WHO is making herself ready to meet Jesus? All others will be disqualified?
“Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.” Revelation 19:7-9
“But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:15-16
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” 1 John 3:6-10