Wait, WHAT, WHO are Christ’s disciples to celebrate?
“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” Galatians 6:14
A Biblically based commentary on current issues that impact you
Richard Foster—Celebration of Deception
by Bob DeWaay
Christianity Today ran a glowing cover story about Evangelicalism’s recent embrace of medieval Roman Catholic mysticism entitled The Future lies in the Past.1 The article traced the beginning of the movement as follows: “The movement seems to have exploded in a 24-month period in 1977-1978, which saw the publication of Richard Foster’s bestselling Celebration of Discipline: The Path to Spiritual Growth and Robert Webber’s Common Roots: A Call to Evangelical Maturity.”2
The article views Foster as one who continues to guide the movement: “From Dallas Willard, Richard Foster, and living practicing monks and nuns, they [those going back to Roman Catholic mysticism] must learn both the strengths and the limits of the historical ascetic disciplines.”3 So Foster was instrumental in starting a movement that is still growing 30-plus years later.
The irony about this particular CIC regarding Foster’s 1978 book is that in 1978 I myself was living in a Christian community committed to practicing much of what he promotes in Celebration of Discipline (even though we had not learned it from him directly). So I am not criticizing a practice about which I know nothing (or one in which I have no experience). I am criticizing a practice I foolishly allowed to deceive me for a significant portion of my early Christian life. When it comes to being deceived by mysticism, I have had abundant involvement. The only way I escaped it was through discovering and adopting the Reformation principle of sola scriptura.
In this article I will show that Foster’s “journey inward” is unbiblical and dangerous. I will show that most of the spiritual disciplines that he calls “means of grace” are no means of grace at all—but a means of putting oneself under spiritual deception.
The Journey Inward
The Bible nowhere describes an inward journey to explore the realm of the spirit. God chose to reveal the truth about spiritual reality through His ordained, Spirit-inspired, biblical writers. What is spiritual and not revealed by God is of the occult and, therefore, forbidden. We have discussed this in many articles and have produced DVD seminars on the topic. But the concept of sola scriptura is totally lost on mystics such as Richard Foster. They, like the enthusiasts that Calvin and Luther warned against, believe they can gain valid and useful knowledge of spiritual things through direct, personal inspiration.
Foster describes the idea of the disciplines that are the topic of his book: “The classical Disciplines of the spiritual life call us to move beyond surface living into the depths. They invite us to explore the inner caverns of the spiritual realm.”4 So Foster has conceptually repudiated sola scriptura on page one to replace it with a journey inward to explore the realm of spirits. Something must have been seriously amiss in evangelicalism already in 1978 to render this book a bestseller! It ought to have been repudiated on the spot. In a footnote to that statement Foster writes, “In one form or another all of the devotional masters have affirmed the necessity of the Disciplines” (Foster: 1). The devotional “masters,” by the way, are mostly Roman Catholics who never were committed to the principle of sola scriptura. It is not surprising that they looked for spirituality through experimentation. But as an “inner light” Quaker, Foster never was committed to sola scriptura either.
Forgetting that the Bible forbids divination, Foster explains what he is after:
[W]e must be willing to go down into the recreating silences, into the inner world of contemplation. In their writings, all of the masters of meditation strive to awaken us to the fact that the universe is much larger than we know, that there are vast unexplored inner regions that are just as real as the physical world we know so well. . . . They call us to the adventure, to be pioneers in this frontier of the Spirit. (Foster: 13)
Realizing that his readers would likely take this as an endorsement of Eastern religions, he makes a disclaimer that it is not Transcendental Meditation (TM) or something of that ilk: “Eastern meditation is an attempt to empty the mind; Christian meditation is an attempt to empty the mind in order to fill it” (Foster: 15). But what Foster wishes us to fill our minds with are personal revelations from the spirit realm that we naively are to think are the voice of God. This sort of meditation is not meditating on what God has said, but uses a technique to explore the spirit world. In other words, it is divination.
What we learn about the spirit realm either is revealed by God (once for all in Scripture) or gleaned by man-made techniques. That distinction is the difference between Christianity and paganism. Only Bible believers know what God has said about Himself and what He wishes to reveal about the unseen spirit world. Foster’s material continues to be popular because we live in an age where being spiritual pioneers on a journey into the unseen realm of the spirits is the essence of popular piety. It is the spirituality of secular talk shows.
To fully understand the degree of Foster’s deception, he even calls these techniques to the inner journey “means of grace”: “They [the Disciplines] are God’s means of grace” (Foster: 6). As with all who teach spiritual disciplines, there are no boundaries to these false “means.” For example, consider this recommended practice: “After you have gained some proficiency in centering down, add a five- to ten-minute meditation on some aspect of the creation. Choose something in the created order: tree, plant, bird, leaf, cloud, and each day ponder it carefully and prayerfully” (Foster 25). This after he had just taught breathing exercises (a means of “centering down”). Then he makes a startling claim: “We should not bypass this means of God’s grace” (Foster: 25). And there we have it: meditating of a leaf can be a means of grace!
Foster’s journey inward is to discover a spirit world that is available for any who search for it: “How then do we come to believe in a world of the spirit? Is it by blind faith? Not at all. The inner reality of the spiritual world is available to all who are willing to search for it” (Foster: 18). He claims that this spiritual search is analogous to scientific experimentation. Never mind that every pagan culture that has existed has believed in the “spiritual world.”
Spirituality of the Imagination
The Bible does not have anything good so say about the imagination. For example: “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the Lord'” (Jeremiah 23:16). A search of the KJV for “imagination” yields 14 verses, and in each case it is a bad thing. According to the Bible, the imagination is where people go when they do not want to listen to God.
However, for Foster the imagination is central: “The inner world of meditation is most easily entered through the door of the imagination. We fail today to appreciate its tremendous power. The imagination is stronger than conceptual thought and stronger than the will” (Foster: 22). Some of the authorities he cites on this point are C. G. Jung, Ignatius of Loyola, and Morton Kelsey. Jung is famous for his concept of the collective unconscious, and Kelsey was an Episcopal priest committed to Jungian principles. Kelsey wrote many books promoting mysticism. The advice Foster gleans from these teachers is that we must learn to think in images and take our dreams to be a possible doorway into the spirit world. Foster claims that dreams are something we already have and can help us develop the use of the imagination. He says, “Keeping a journal of our dreams is a way of taking them seriously” (Foster: 23).
There is, Foster warns, a danger to this process: “At the same time [that we ask for dreams to be God speaking to us], it is wise to pray a prayer of protection, since to open ourselves to spiritual influence can be dangerous as well as profitable” (Foster: 23). I would say that is asking God to protect us as we use various techniques to go where He does not want us to go (into the world of the spirits to gain information). The danger he warns of is far greater than Foster imagines. Those who take the journey inward will be deceived—every time! We are not equipped to gain spiritual information from that realm. That is why God speaks to us through His ordained mediators (the inspired Biblical writers); otherwise we would be fishing in the dark in a medium we are not suited for.
Foster teaches his readers to use their imaginations to experience Biblical stories with the five physical senses. Here is what he claims will happen:
As you enter the story, not as a passive observer but as an active participant, remember that since Jesus lives in the Eternal Now and is not bound by time, this event in the past is a living present-tense experience for Him. Hence, you can actually encounter the living Christ in the event, be addressed by His voice and be touched by His healing power. It can be more than an exercise of the imagination; it can be a genuine confrontation. Jesus Christ will actually come to you. (Foster: 26)
Showing that Foster’s ideas are still influential in our day, Greg Boyd cites some of Foster’s words here to support what he calls “cataphatic prayer” which uses the imagination and images as a means to contact God and gain spiritual information.5 Those who endorse this practice assume they are not being deceived by spirits, but I cannot see on what grounds.
Foster prescribes a practice using one’s imagination that mimics astral projection to the degree that he actually includes a footnote disclaimer stating that it is not astral projection (Foster 28). It begins by telling his readers to imagine themselves going out into nature into a beautiful place (Boyd describes how he practices this, as well as its results6). After enjoying the sights and smells (in your imagination) these are the next steps:
In your imagination allow your spiritual body, shining with light, to rise out of your physical body. Look back so that you can see yourself lying in the grass and reassure your body that you will return momentarily. Imagine your spiritual self, alive and vibrant, rising up through the clouds and into the stratosphere. . . Go deeper and deeper into outer space until there is nothing except the warm presence of the eternal Creator. Rest in His presence. Listen quietly, anticipating the unanticipated. Note carefully any instruction given. With time and experience you will be able to distinguish readily between mere human thought that may bubble up to the conscious mind and the True Spirit which inwardly moves upon the heart. (Foster: 27, 28)
I must ask how one knows whether “True Spirit” is not a deceiving one? Mysticism’s fatal flaw is that it naively assumes that Christians having subjective religious experiences must therefore be having Christian experiences that are truly from God—even if the experiences were provoked through unbiblical practices similar to those used by pagans.
Mental Alchemy
Foster’s approach to prayer is laced with mysticism as well. He claims that prayer needs to be learned from people who have the right experiences and are “masters” who know what they are doing. Foster does not teach ordinary prayer, whereby we bring our needs and requests to the Lord and know that He hears us (because He promised that He does). Here is why he thinks such prayer fails:
Often people will pray and pray with all the faith in the world, but nothing happens. Naturally, they were not contacting the channel. We begin praying for others by first centering down and listening to the quiet thunder of the Lord of hosts. Attuning ourselves to divine breathings is spiritual work, but without it our praying is vain repetition (Mt. 6:7). Listening to the Lord is the first thing, the second thing, and the third thing necessary for successful intercession. (Foster: 34)
Of course this means we have to become mystics if we want to pray.
He teaches that we first must hear personal revelations from God, using meditation techniques such as he teaches, before we pray. He says: “The beginning point, then, in learning to pray for others is to listen for guidance . . . This inner “yes” is the divine authorization for you to pray for the person or situation” (Foster: 35). No! Foster is wrong! The only authorization we need to pray is the Biblical command to pray—not personal revelations.
For Foster, meditation (mystical style) is necessary but not sufficient. He also brings the imagination into the process: “As with meditation, the imagination is a powerful tool in the work of prayer” (Foster: 36). He credits Agnes Sanford7 for helping him see the value of using the imagination in praying. Foster writes, “Imagination opens the door to faith. If we can ‘see’ in our mind’s eye a shattered marriage whole or a sick person well, it is only a short step to believing it will be so” (Foster: 36). Sanford got her ideas from Theosophy, New Thought, Jung, and Emmet Fox. These ideas, echoed by Foster, come from the unbiblical “mind over matter” thinking of that era. That kind of thinking uses creative visualization to change reality or channel spiritual power. Foster suggests, “Imagine the light of Christ flowing through your hands and healing every emotional trauma and hurt feeling your child experienced that day” (Foster: 39).
In his 1985 book, The Seduction of Christianity, Dave Hunt labeled creative visualization such as what Foster promotes, “mental alchemy.”8 Hunt warned the church that Foster promoted such mental alchemy in Celebration of Discipline, and as we have shown, he, in fact, does. So how is it that 24 years after Hunt’s warning Foster is more popular than ever with Evangelicals? The answer is end times deception. Now, a huge movement that claims to be a reformation promoting Foster, Willard and their versions of mysticism does exist (i.e., The Emergent Church). Things have gotten so very much worse.
Spiritual Directors
Once mysticism and the supposed need to gain personal revelations from God are embraced, there arises a need for new “masters” who are better at navigating the spirit world. Pagan societies have always had such persons. They are called “shamans.” Eastern religion calls them “gurus.” Deceived Christians call them “spiritual directors.” Foster explains, “In the Middle Ages not even the greatest saints attempted the depths of the inward journey without the help of a spiritual director” (Foster: 159). The problem, according to Foster, is that the churches (in 1978) lacked “living masters”:
No doubt part of the surge of interest in Eastern meditation is because the churches have abrogated the field. How depressing for a university student, seeking to know the Christian teaching on meditation, to discover that there are so few living masters of contemplative prayer and that nearly all of the serious writings on the subject are seven or more centuries old. No wonder he or she turns to Zen, Yoga, or TM. (Foster: 14)
Foster’s dream has come true. Today people can even practice Yoga in a Christian church. We have Christian TM; it is called contemplative prayer. Yes, Eastern religion has come right into the church, and Foster has helped usher it in.
But what about “living masters” or spiritual directors? In 1972 Morton Kelsey lamented their lack: “Indeed I would suggest that everyone who is serious about relating to the spiritual realm find himself a spiritual director, if there were more men trained and experienced in this way.”9 That “problem” has been solved in a huge way. Evangelical theology schools are now offering masters degrees in “spiritual formation” in order to equip people to be “spiritual directors.” Here is what Biola University says about its program: “This degree is designed to equip men and women for the ministry of spiritual direction, discipleship, formation and soul care in the local church and for further academic training in spiritual formation.”10 Spiritual Directors International will help you find a spiritual director regardless of your religion.11 Richard Foster’s own Renovare, which purports to “encourage renewal in the Christian church,” has a list of spiritual direction programs.12
Foster explains the purpose of the spiritual director: “He is the means of God to open the path to the inward teaching of the Holy Spirit” (Foster: 160). Apparently, in a full-blown rejection of sola scriptura where the Holy Spirit’s teaching is mediated to the church through the Biblical writers only, we need mediators for personal revelations beyond scripture.
Foster explains how spiritual directors lead: “He leads only by the force of his own personal holiness” (Foster: 160). In Roman Catholicism the Pope is called “his holiness” and in Tibetan Buddhism the Dalai Lama is called “his holiness” but now evangelicals are developing a class of people who evidently deserve the title. How exactly are we to judge when someone has gained “personal holiness” sufficient to be a spiritual director and mediate spirituality to others? Foster says, “Though the director has obviously advanced further into the inner depths, the two [master and disciple] are together learning and growing in the realm of the Spirit” (Foster: 160). Foster cites Roman Catholic mystic Thomas Merton about how this works: “The spiritual director was something of a ‘spiritual father who begot the perfect life in the soul of his disciple by his instructions first of all, but also by his prayer, his sanctity and his example. He was . . . a kind of ‘sacrament’ of the Lord’s presence in the ecclesiastical community” (Foster: 161).
End Times Delusion
When it comes to end times deception, Foster is on the cutting edge of embracing it. Consider what he wrote: “In our day heaven and earth are on tiptoe waiting for the emerging of a Spirit-led, Spirit-intoxicated, Spirit-empowered people. . . . Individuals can be found here and there whose hearts burn with divine fire” (Foster: 150). Such inclinations have led to massive deception. They smack of the Latter Rain deception, now embodied in such false teachers as Rick Joyner and Mike Bickle. They are elitist. They are in line with the beliefs of the Emergent Church as well. He also says: “Our century has yet to see the breaking forth of the apostolic church of the Spirit” (Foster: 150). Now we have the New Apostolic Reformation claiming to be just that. Foster’s ideas now embody the massive apostasy and end times deception that characterize our age.
Foster’s teachings have taken the church as far away from the Reformation principle of sola scriptura as the Roman Catholic Church ever was. The only thing left is for them to bring us all the way back to Rome. Christianity Today praises Foster for pointing us in that direction.
In early 2008 I wrote a CIC article about how abandoning the principle of sola scriptura would lead evangelicals back to Rome.13 It was partly a response to the CT article praising mysticism. The response I received was rather unexpected. I was contacted by former evangelicals who had rejected sola scriptura and had gone back to Rome! They wanted to debate me about sola scriptura. Sadly, my point was proven. As a response to their misguided challenge our church hosted a seminar on sola scriptura, called Faith at Risk 4.14 In the seminar Gary Gilley and I defended the scriptures as the sole authority for the church.
The aforementioned CT article discusses a new monasticism, former evangelical leaders converting to Roman Catholicism, and mystical practices like lectio divina—and they call all of it a good and hopeful thing. Chris Armstrong, the author of the article, concluded, “That they [evangelicals] are receiving good guidance on this road from wise teachers [Foster and Willard] is reason to believe that Christ is guiding the process. And that they are meeting and learning from fellow Christians in the other two great confessions, Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox, is reason to rejoice in the power of love.”15
Who is left to defend the principles of the Reformation? One would think Reformed theologians are, but they aren’t doing their job. In the last CIC article we mentioned Reformed theologian Donald Whitney who wrote: “Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline has been the most popular book on the subject of the Spiritual Disciplines in the last half of the twentieth century. The great contribution of this work is the reminder that the Spiritual Disciplines, which many see as restrictive and binding, are actually means to spiritual freedom.”16 That from a teacher in a Reformed seminary?
If a book that teaches Christian TM, Christian astral projection and mental alchemy by means of the imagination is a “great contribution,” then something is seriously wrong here. The delusion is so widespread that I see no other explanation for it than the end time deception predicted by Paul: “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,” (1Timothy 4:1). Another passage warns: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths” (2Timothy 4:3, 4).
That time now is here. We are accountable to God for what we believe and practice. Those who wish to persevere in the faith in this age of delusion must base their beliefs and practices only on the truths found in Scripture. Foster’s journey into the world of the spirits will deceive all who enter it.
Issue 112 – May / June 2009
End Notes
- Chris Armstrong, “The Future lies in the Past” in Christianity Today, February 2008.
- Ibid. 24.
- Ibid. 29.
- Richard Foster, Celebration of Discipline: The Path to Spiritual Growth (New York: Harper & Row, 1978) 1. All subsequent citations from this book will be bracketed within the text in this fashion: (Foster: 1).
- Greg Boyd, Seeing is Believing, (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2004). Boyd cites Foster to prove that the Lord will actually come to us through our use of “imaginative meditation.” I deal with this issue more fully in CIC issue 83 July/August, 2003: HTTP://CICMINISTRY.ORG/COMMENTARY/ISSUE83.HTM
- Ibid. 111-125.
- I write about Sanford’s inner healing theories in CIC Issue 96: HTTP://CICMINISTRY.ORG/COMMENTARY/ISSUE96.HTM
- Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon, The Seduction of Christianity (Eugene: Harvest House, 1985) 138.
- Morton Kelsey, Encounter With God, (Bethany Fellowship: Minneapolis, 1972) 179.
- http://www.biola.edu/spiritualformation/programs/ SEE PDF
- HTTP://WWW.SDIWORLD.ORG
- HTTP://WWW.RENOVARE.ORG/JOURNEY_TRAINING_DIRECTION.HTM
- CIC Issue 105; March/April 2008: HTTP://CICMINISTRY.ORG/COMMENTARY/ISSUE105.HTM
- Watch this seminar HERE
- Armstrong, Future
- DONALD S. WHITNEY, SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES FOR THE CHRISTIAN LIFE (COLORADO SPRINGS: NAVPRESS, 1991) 23.
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Articles
False Apostles Exposed!

Ever notice today who everyone and their uncle’s dog is supposedly an “apostle”? Laughable. Heretical. Holy Scripture specifically addresses “false apostles” two times.
“For such are FALSE APOSTLES, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.” 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Any man pretending to be an “apostle” is one of the “false apostles.”
To the Ephesian assembly of believers, Jesus said:
“I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried (tested) them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:” Revelation 2:2
Those who falsely claim to be apostles “are evil.”
Below is a specific exposé of a network of false apostles. Most deceivers use similar schemes and methods to prey upon the unlearned.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” Romans 16:17-18
Reasoning away the blatant error and deception of these self-appointed so-called “apostles” is unwise and will result in being misled and damned ultimately (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12; 2 Peter 3:17). It doesn’t matter how many good things are on their site and presented in their ministry, it’s a false ministry based on the fact that they are elevating themselves as “apostles” and deceitfully manipulating people with mind control to believe they need these wolves for spiritual maturity. This is a classic, easily discerned deception (2 Peter 2:17). This is classic Nicolaitan deceit. Jesus says He hates these deeds and doctrines (Revelation 2:6, 15).
“In fact it would be the same as attempting to elevate oneself in the power of the self, over other believers, as Jesus told us we are not to be doing. Reference where the disciples were arguing with each other over which of them was the greatest. Same would be true of a a person elevating themselves as a Pope.” Trevor Gamble
Most deception is simple mind control which is witchcraft to get gullible people under their spell and false leadership by making them think they need these “living apostles.” It’s a scam.
“Beware lest any man spoil (ruin) you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.” Colossians 2:8-10
These “false apostles” will verbally agree with the fact that all true believers are “complete” in Christ and yet, they add to His Word and plan by insisting that THEY are Christ’s appointed “apostles” whom the LORD has sent to perfect them (those they are preying on). This is nonsense folks. This is no different than the Catholic cult convincing their prey that Peter was the first pope. We know that isn’t biblical and yet, when someone is convinced of this lie, they then wrongly believe that the Roman religion is the one true religion that extends from Christ and Peter. So, like Rome, these “false apostles” add themselves into the simple equation given us in the original Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). More on this below …
We hope that these men will contact us with proof that they have repented and are bringing forth tangible fruits consistent with that true repentance (Matthew 3:7-8).
Self-Appointed “Apostle” John Welty Exposed
Any man calling himself a prophet or apostle is a fraud.
John Welty is a part of the “Second 8th Week Ministries.” Their website reads: “Living Apostles Today | Restoring the Church Back to Her First Love.” This clearly indicates that they believe that no one alive today among the true servants of Christ are able to do this work of Christ except them – the “living apostles.” This statement infers that until now, the body of Christ has not been able to grow into full maturity but now it can since they are on the scene. Another false apostle involved is self-appointed “apostle” Eric Vonanderseck.
“The apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers of the Second 8th Week welcome you. Hear what God is saying to the church through His apostles and prophets. If God has been preparing your heart for transition and change, be ready to be ignited by the Spirit to the fulness of the hope of Christ. This is a time of separation, a time of challenge, and a time of rejoicing. (Isaiah 42:16)”
This is a network set up to entrap and ensnare souls (Ezekiel 22:25-27). Note the typical buzz words and terms used by false ministries such as “transition and change” and “ignited.” This witchcraft, manipulation, and mind control is being wielded over the minds of men and women.
Note: A warning has been sent by us to these men in hopes that they would see the light of truth and turn to the LORD before it’s too late. No reply back was received to date. It is our prayer that these men will repent and turn their lives over to the LORD afresh in humility and brokenness. If they do, they will become genuinely broken, drop their titles, and begin serving God’s people instead of exploiting them for personal gain. Yet, for now the alarm must be sounded so that others can escape the snare of their falsehoods and counterfeit pretentious “ministry.” Our desire is not to condemn or be harsh. These things must be done in obedience to our LORD to protect precious souls (Romans 16:17-18; Hebrews 13:20; Jude 3-4, etc.).
Yet, we pray these guys themselves will turn to the LORD
At the top of the page on his personal website, John Welty didn’t even pay enough attention or purposely used a lower case “c” when referring to Jesus Christ. Keep this in mind as you read the following concerning this ravening wolf (Ezekiel 22:25-27; Matthew 7:15).
Did you notice this paragraph on this guy’s site? I high lighted some things…..
“Truth, which comes through living apostles, makes all the necessary connections so that we may recognize the pattern God set for our faith to follow. With truth in the heart, we learn how to meet God’s expectations through sanctified faith in Christ which joins our faith perfectly to Him that we may experience the power and fullness of Christ.”
Typical tricky and deceit-filled language used here. Welty is positioning himself by conditioning the reader to believe there are “living apostles” and that those apostles have the same amount of kingdom authority as did Paul and the original twelve and that we are to submit to them. Not quite! Though I do believe there are apostles today, I don’t believe they fulfill the same function or place in God’s kingdom as did the original twelve and Paul, and that if they are an apostle and a true one, they are probably humble enough not to refer to themselves as an apostle. They simply go about humbly serving.
You see, if wolves like John Welty can convince the unlearned that they need him then he’s got them in his grip. After all, John Welty is a “living apostle,” right? Wrong!
We are often warned in Scripture of beguilers like John Welty.
Read and commit to memory the following verse and it will keep you till the end beloved in this time of great and treacherous apostasy:
“For of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.” 2 Peter 2:17
Read it one more time please. This is key.
When you allow a man to “overcome” you with a lie such as Welty is peddling, then he will bring you under his “bondage” to the lies he perpetrated upon your life.
When we are truly submitted to Jesus Christ, rooted and grounded in Him and therefore His love and truth, we will escape such beguilers.
Notice how these so-called “apostles” have inserted themselves in the equation? Didn’t God tell us that there is only “ONE Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus”? (1 Timothy 2:5). Did you catch the word “necessary” Welty used? This is classic, typical Nicolaitan (conquer the laity by convincing them they need you) usurping. Jesus says He hates this (Rev. 2:6, 15). “False apostles” is one of the perils Paul faced (2 Corinthians 11:13).
These so-called “apostles” need to repent and begin obeying Jesus by not using titles and calling themselves mere servants who do not merit being saved much less ruling unwarranted over God’s children (Matthew 20:24-28; 23:8-12; Ephesians 3:8; 1 Timothy 1:15).
The 5-fold eldership giftings are to be used to glorify God was SERVING HUMBLY among His people and not to use as a title to build ones own brand in self-promotions (Romans 12:3-8; Ephesians 4:11-16; 1 Peter 4:10-11). This is a direct contradiction of what Christ taught about the necessity of humility among His people (Matthew 20:20-28; 23:8-12).
Another clue to his smoke-blowing scam is that he is a cloud and wind without rain or without any substance (Proverbs 25:14).
“These are wells without water (no substance), clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.” 2 Peter 2:17-18
This guy is very long winded to make little simple points that aren’t even biblical and he really doesn’t make those points well if at all. Doesn’t the Bible tell us that the LORD is not the author of confusion? See 1 Corinthians 14:33. It would seem, at least in part, that John Welty is striving in the flesh and wanting “job security” as it’s called today. In other words, he wants people to think they need him which would assure his rule over them and being funded. So he’s deliberately not upholding the “Head” but instead he’s usurpingly intercepting the worship due only to Christ, the only Head of His body from which all divine virtue flows. See Colossians 2:18-19.
These “false apostles” give themselves away by never mentioning the very “the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus.” Jesus alone is “the Apostle and High Priest of our profession.”
“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;” Hebrews 3:1
Isn’t it interesting how much time and energy these circus clown wolves spend claiming and touting their own self-appointed, supposed apostleship and say little or nothing about the very “Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus”? Now that’s a huge red flag, waving profusely!
The “Apostle” that matters is Jesus Christ, not modern men who wish to elevate themselves among other men by touting titles and thereby deceiving and snaring souls.
Paul, a known servant and true apostle of Jesus, appointed by Christ Himself, stated:
“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?” 1 Corinthians 1:13
Inserting so-called modern “apostles” into the equation is Nicolaitan domination over other souls which is witchcraft, which Jesus says He hates (Revelation 2:6, 15). JESUS Christ is building HIS true church as He promised and warns us about false prophets and false apostles, especially in these final days.
“The spirit of antichrist” opposes Christ by replacing Him who told us He is the only way (John 14:6). Those possessed with “the spirit of antichrist” don’t antichrist” don’t “consider” or esteem and factor in the only true Christ – Jesus Christ. They factor Him out of their message and your mind and life. That’s the very job of “the spirit of antichrist” who is Satan himself who has come to “steal, and to kill, and to destroy” (John 10:10). The “spirit of antichrist” is that evil spirit that works to replace Christ with something or anything else, derailing those who once knew Him (Colossians 2:8; 18-19; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; Hebrews 3:12-14; 1 John 4:1-3). Anti means in place of and so “the spirit of antichrist” replaces Christ with a false Christ or anything else (1 John 4:1-3). So, this evil spirit, working through false apostles like John Welty, seeks to replace Christ with himself in the lives of the people he preys upon.
You see, this guy is not preaching Christ but self. Paul said “We preach Christ crucified” (1 Corinthians 1:23). Welty distorts and throws out smokescreens with lots of fluff and stuff that goes undetected by those who have chosen to reject Christ in their own personal lives and therefore don’t study diligently His written Word. They therefore find it intriguing to hear all this acrobatic language that makes him appear as if he is a guru who has a special line to God and yet, in reality, what he says amounts to nothing.
Paul says: “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” Galatians 6:14
You will most likely never hear John Welty say those words and if you do, he will twist them. Welty is glorying in self, not the Savior. Those snared by this man’s ministry of deceit will be like Welty – self-serving and Savior-rejecting.
1 John 4
“1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
Glory intercepted: This fellow is under “strong delusion,” even having been sent by God this “spirit of antichrist” (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12). If you look at large segments of this guy’s work, you will not see him preaching and confessing Jesus Christ who came in the flesh because he is purposely x-ing Jesus out of the message in order to be able to elevate and establish himself and give job security to himself. The spirit of antichrist comes on those who want to reign over their own lives as Lucifer vaunted himself against the Almighty but was cast down for doing so.
If you are going to understand how the enemy works, you must understand the following passage which holds the key to understanding and being able to detect the work of the enemy of all souls:
Isaiah 14
“12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
Did you see the 5 “I”‘s of Lucifer?
In Heaven in eternity past, Lucifer, who is now Satan, appointed himself to be “like the most High.” This is exactly what the self-appointed, so-called “little gods” of today do as they seek to wield their manipulation over the people just as Lucifer did and was successful at garnering a third of the angels in Heaven who joined him in rebelling against God (Revelation 12:7-12). The first rebel, Lucifer, was cast out of God’s presence violently and permanently because “God resisteth (sets Himself against) the proud” (James 4:6).
Ezekiel, the servant of the LORD, was told by God to “Speak WITH MY WORDS unto them” (Ezekiel 3:4). Timothy was charged to simply and only “Preach the word” (2 Timothy 4:2).
Note what the elders of Israel did in ministering to God’s people:
“So they read in the book in the law (written Word) of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.” Nehemiah 8:8
They simply read God’s Word to the people and helped them “understand” GOD’s Word. ANY person in “ministry” who is not doing this is a bona fide wolf on this basis alone.
As the video goes on, Welty speaks of “tools we can use daily.” I don’t like this word “tools” for more than one reason but firstly, I don’t like it because it’s not biblical language. What’s wrong with using the word “tools” and other non-scriptural terms and words? Well, lots. The premise from which he speaks is that WE use God and the things He has given us instead of being LED by and of Him. In this guy’s Luciferic theology, we take what God gives and use it as we see fit. He’s an enemy of the cross of Christ (Philippians 3:18-19). When we obey Jesus, we lay down our lives and deny self, take up the cross and follow Christ who is “the resurrection” and raised us up in His power, humbled before Him and simply following His lead. “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14). Do you see the difference here of being led by the Spirit and taking things into our own hands, even the “tools” God gives us? In this guy’s corrupted theology, God isn’t in control but he is.
Then he speaks of these so-called modern apostles whom he says “God” has called to “steward these things to you.” In other words, you need THEM. THEY are essential, not Christ, but them. You seeing this baiting and switching? This is slight of hand friends of Christ, so beware!
He says “this is what Christ is doing….. not apart from my stewardship but through it.” So, according to this wolf’s deranged theology, you must have him to have the work of God done in your life. It’s through him, not Christ but him, that God is doing His work. Absurd!
Then he says Christ was not our substitute but rather did what He did for “our benefit.” There we go again – he is making everything revolve around man when God’s Word teaches us that man is utterly depraved, corrupted, and sinful and that Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sin. This man has replaced who the Messiah revealed in Holy Scripture with a false Christ that simply does all he does for the benefit of man. He’s like some cosmic bellboy who has come to give man tools to do his (man’s) own bidding as he sees fit as his own little god.
He uses more code language here such as “sanctified contact.” No such term or language appears in Holy Scripture. It’s like these guys create their own language to hoodwink the unlearned who refuse to study God’s Word and seek His face.
“Nine spiritual tools”? There are nine “GIFTS” of the Holy Spirit given to the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4-12) and nine dimensions of “the FRUIT of the Spirit” (Galatians 5:22-23); but never are nine or any “tools of the spirit” mentioned. What spirit is this man speaking by and of? The answer should be obvious.
Ouch, then he digs himself deeper with this feigned idea and worn out scheme of “learning the language of the covenant.” But his use of the words “language of the covenant” is not referring to simply learning the language given us as Holy Scripture which would be the language of God’s covenant if you will. You see, by his whole new language, he has to complicate the simple Gospel, the original Gospel, in order to establish his own position and profession and make people believe he is above them; and that they need him to know all these useless things he is putting forth and making sound fancy. To the contrary, Paul speaks of “the simplicity that is in Christ”:
2 Corinthians 11
“2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.”
John Welty is the typical esoteric clairvoyant channeler or medium who feigns to have some special line to God; and be a modern apostle of Jesus in order to trick people into submission to his high and mighty calling and Luciferian self. This man is a self-appointed false apostle and false prophet just as we are warned about in Holy Scripture (2 Corinthians 11:13). As we are doing here in identifying and exposing this false apostle. So did the Ephesian believers. Jesus said to them:
“I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried (tested) them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:” Revelation 2:2
Welty is a classic and typical example of a man who does not memorize God’s Words but rather has learned a simulated certain type of terminology in order to feel as though he has something unique that people need to learn. That’s his purpose for not preaching God’s Word – so he can introduce and seduce. Instead of simply teaching the written Word of God, false ministers try to come up with something different or something other than just the Bible so that they have their own brand of ware to peddle and make themselves seem unique and a needed commodity. But the Bible instructs us to “Preach the word” and to “speak with MY words unto them;” and “If any man speak, let him speak as of the oracles (written Word) of God” (2 Timothy 4:2; Ezekiel 3:4; 1 Peter 4:11).
I don’t sense the Holy Spirit in this man’s life at all which would be evidenced by “the fruit of the Spirit” or that Christ-like evidence produced in the life of the true disciple who is dying to self and being conformed to the holy and humble image of the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us (Romans 8:28; Galatians 5:22-23). A self-serving man is a man who is separated from Him who “is love” (1 John 4:8, 16). With no exceptions, those who are possessed with the fruit of God’s love live their lives to serve others and not exploit them for selfish cause.
Welty’s use of the words, “being in submission to my stewardship as an apostle,” gives his whole gig away. To the contrary, the Bible says:
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” James 4:7
Submitting to God is what is important, not submitting to mere sinful men. And, we are commanded to only submit to those servant elders who preach only God’s pure Word, and diligently watch for our souls (Hebrews 13:7, 17). Such a servant is very rare and nearly impossible to find in this late hour.
Welty’s system of submission is no different that that used by the catholic church which has added itself to the equation of salvation, falsely claiming that there is no salvation outside of Rome. But the true believer knows there’s only one Hope, one Way, one Truth, one who is eternal Life, one Mediator, and one great Intercessor!
Listen to what the apostle of Jesus, Paul, said concerning his place as an apostle:
“Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith (faith in God not Paul) ye stand.” 2 Corinthians 1:24
Yet Welty, and deceivers like him, claim to possess some great authority that believers should submit to. Nonsense!
Paul said that the Corinthian disciples of JESUS were only to follow him AS he followed Christ, and not if he departed from the faith and ceased to follow Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). Paul was protecting the people even against himself, of whom he said he must “KEEP under” his body and bring it into subjection lest he also become rejected as a reprobate or one who is “castaway” from God (1 Corinthians 9:27). The apostle Paul, a true apostle of Jesus Christ said to the Galatians, that even if a very angel from HEAVEN (not hell), or if he (Paul) ever told them anything different than what he gave them in giving them the Gospel of Christ, that they were to consider him “accursed” (Galatians 1:6-9).
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach ANY OTHER gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
This guy is a false as they come. I stopped the video here. It should be more than clear that John Welty is a child of Satan himself, posing as a minister of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
“12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
This guy is so obvious that part of me wants to burst out laughing, and the other part is very sad that there are so many severely lost and unlearned souls who would follow this error; and are one step away from the Lord’s wrath and don’t even realize it.
Paul, a true servant and God-fearing overseer, cried with literal tears for three years day and night, because he knew devouring wolves were going to enter in from among the people of God to lead away and destroy souls. He therefore commended them to the Word of God which is our only protection – but only as we ourselves seek His face and study what He told us in His Word.
Acts 20:27-32
“27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.”
In verse 32 Paul gives you and me the solution and safeguard to deceit and wolves – “the word” which is able to grant us a heavenly “inheritance.”
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“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” 2 John 9-11
Concerning apostles, one servant writes:
“I believe the scripture bears out that the use of the title of apostle should be reserved for those first apostles who were taught directly from the mouth of the Lord. That would include the eleven, plus Mathias, and Paul. Those apostles will forever be held to a greater position of respect since God chose them to be firsthand representatives of the message and Messenger He sent, Jesus Christ. Their revelation of Him and His message should never be added to, but it may be expounded on by the Spirit who continues to give us understanding of those things. Thus, those men stand alone in their call, and the bearing of the title should be reserved for them alone. That title makes that distinction clear. To strengthen this by the scripture, let us remember that while Barnabas and others were apostles, they were NEVER referred to as apostles by title. (Apostle Barnabas?) This was to distinguish them from second generation apostles who did not learn directly from Jesus Christ, but followed the first generation apostles and continued in the apostle’s call of teaching among the scattered sheep, establishing churches, and walking in the way of the Lord as examples to the whole flock. Yes. Genuine humility is essential in our walk and call, regardless of our particular position for edification in the body; but it is a particularly important characteristic for those who are entrusted with the call of a second generation apostle since we minister to the whole body. Our example should be the life walk of the High Apostle of us all, even Jesus Christ (Hebrews 3:1).
Finally, Some may argue that they need to use the title as Paul did, so that they will be given proper respect. However, the use of the title does not necessarily give respect and usually turns true believers off (thankfully). Paul was indeed a first generation apostle and even his use of the title did not always work to his favor. There was a lot of pain that went with his authentic title. I dare say, not many who call themselves that today would be willing to pay the price that he did – which was another PROOF of his apostleship.
In His grace,” M.
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Apostasy
SINLESS PERFECTIONISM: WHOSE Righteousness are You Trusting? [podcast]

Salvation, justification, overcoming sin all come by way of the mercy of God, the divinely enabling grace of God, and the cross, the daily crucified life (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 3:24-26; 4:4-5; 6:14; 2 Corinthians 4:10-12; Galatians 2:20; 3:1-3; Titus 3:5-7, etc.). It does not come by mere self-determination or self-will.
Don’t strive. Surrender.
Beware of the sinless perfectionism mob.
Beloved, God found us, in our sins, and saved us into His eternal kingdom! (Romans 5:6-9; 1 John 4:19). We didn’t find Him. He found us!
Defusing the iniquity of self-righteousness increases exponentially when we begin learning the biblical doctrine of fallen mankind (Genesis 6:5, 12; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Psalms 39:4-5).
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. … 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Romans 7:18, 24
“It’s actually freedom when we embrace the Bible truth of how wretched we are! We don’t have to hide it or try to be better than we are! Jesus can now reign on the throne of our hearts and not self!” Karen Cochran
Realizing our own utter helplessness, hopelessness, and depravity and taking up the cross is the only the safe place with God right, the cross, the bowing to Him to take full control…. See Matthew 5:3; John 3:30.
All self-righteous religious hypocrites are going to hell (Matthew 21:31). May God save, forgive, and cause us, to bless us to be His authentic disciples. In Jesus’ Name, amen.
Paul’s flesh was and our flesh is a constant reminder of the ever momentary need for the cross, burial, and resurrection grace of Jesus (Romans 6:3-10; 8:11; 2 Corinthians 4:10-12; Galatians 2:20, etc.). Read Romans chapters 6-7 each morning this week.
The cross reveals your sin, and God’s love, not how wonderful you are! Repent!
Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
Touting our own supposed righteousness is a dangerous undertaking. Lifting ourselves up will result in being brought down low, with no exception.
“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18
All I have to do to find the man most in need of God’s saving grace and mercy, is to look in the mirror (Romans 7:18, 24; James 1:23-24). As long as we neglect to look in the mirror, honestly, we will continue to be self-righteous as were Jesus’ most evil enemies, the religious frauds, the pharisees of His day (Matthew 23). Are we pharisees or humble, broken, honest disciples of Christ? (Matthew 18:3-4)
“If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.” Job 9:20
“Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?” Proverbs 20:9
There is NO righteousness outside of Christ (Romans 7:18, 24).
Every single day is the opportunity to overcome – yet this will only happen as we choose to do things God’s way – the cross. Romans 6-8; 2 Corinthians 4:10-12; Galatians 2:20; Colossians 3:3, etc. Sinless Perfectionism Exposed
The no sin nature people are missing the cross. The Mike Desario’s, the Charles Finney’s, and the Jesse Morrell’s of the world peddle the no-sin-nature heresy and also do not preach the cross, the crucified life. They rag on endlessly about “stopping all sin” but never mention the crucified life which is the only divine prescription for overcoming sin (Romans 6, etc.). That alone makes them false, peddlers of “another gospel.” (Galatians 1:6-9) This is why they can’t understand this. They do not realize that God gave us the solution to this sin bent (iniquity), this inherent in fallen man sin – and that answer is the crucified life which is at the heart of the original Gospel.
“True holiness” comes exclusively from the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Yet this is not just our position in Christ, it must also be the practical reality of our lives lived (Ephesians 4:24). The holiness of God, “true holiness,” requires the “daily” cross Jesus commanded which separates us from self and sin (Luke 9:23-24; 1 Corinthians 9:27, etc.). Sin is overcome exclusively via oneness with Christ in an abiding relationship (John 15, 17) and not by mere self-effort alone – which is antichrist. The point established in the whole of Holy Scripture is that we are beholden to the Savior, the LORD Jesus, and must be honest about our wretchedness outside of a present abiding relationship with Him (Romans 7:18, 24) whereby the fruit of holiness is produced. There’s a slew of self-righteousness being promoted as “holiness” today through wolves who’ve digested the false teaching of devils like Mike Desario and Charles Finney and those who peddle these doctrines.
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and
upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (not self): 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” Romans 3:21-26
After being attacked and accused of being a Roman catholic, Baptist heretic…. the response to the accuser was as follows:
Thanks for the attack, the persecution. I do rejoice (Matthew 5:10-12). I am certainly anything but Catholic or Baptist. Now, to examine what you wrote ….No one is a more staunch exposer of Rome, nor a more critical exposer of the eternal security Baptist, protestant lie (the ministry has 3 landmark books exposing OSAS – over 1,000 pages total) ….. So what you are saying here is a lie, bearing false witness, instead of dealing with the Scripture truth of these things. There is no cross in this sinless perfectionism movement, and the cross is the only way to overcome all sin – by the resurrection power of Christ (Gal 2:20; 2 Cor 4:10-12). Also, there is no grace (divine enablement) or faith in your message, but rather only rote mechanical obedience as if people are earning their own way. This alone makes your message errant, not according to the whole counsel of Scripture. | Eternal Security Exposed | Catholic Church Exposed
You offer some truth here and yet this sounds like Mike Desario, Charles Finney falsehoods, the no-sin-nature, sinless perfectionism heresy.
Sinlessly Perfect? You Sure? [podcast]
Beware of the sinful self-righteousness masquerading behind feigned perfect obedience. This Sinless perfectionism they are pushing is pure self-righteousness.
I am not your enemy ….. attack if you see fit. Yes, the LORD does say that obedience is essential, it proves that one knows the LORD or is known of Him (Matt 7:21). Good works do not save us – Christ alone saves us. This is a real subtle deception. There is the need to synthesize “ALL scripture” which teaches, that faith, obedience and good fruit do not save us, God does, by HIS sheer mercy.
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:5-7
Sinful self-righteousness has no place in the life of a disciple of Jesus. Matthew 21:31
Self-righteousness was one of the sins of the pharisees and is soul damning (Matthew 23, etc.). Even the publicans and harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous religionists (Matthew 21:31).
Obedience is the fruit of saving faith and yet our obedience doesn’t save us. According to this passage, you are under a spirit of witchcraft – to think your own works-righteousness, law-keeping saves you:
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” Galatians 3:1-3
Think about this that Jesus says from perhaps a new perspective … “IF you love me, keep my commandments” …. perhaps He is saying “If you don’t love me, don’t bother obeying Me, because that is futility.” Good works/obedience, fruit are borne out of an abiding relationship. It’s about relationship, not earning our own way I know this well as I was out of balance for many years. I am not seeing this as an argument … just discussing, okay?
There is no cross, no crucified life in the message of the sinless perfectionist heretics and therefore they are preaching “another gospel.” (Gal 1:6-9) The cross is the divine solution to sin and is at the center of the original Gospel and that’s the only way to be raised up out of the flesh and victorious over sin, not be mere self-effort. You are kidding no one but yourself if you believe your own good works are at the ground level of your justification before a holy God who sent His only begotten Son to do what we cannot do. – If righteousness comes out of just sheer obedience, law-keeping, then Christ is dead in vain.
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21
God is holy and holiness is essential for eternal glory (Hebrews 12:14, etc.). Yet such comes about by the crucified life Jesus prescribed, the cross and the resurrection (raising up) grace of God – not by seeking to be perfect on our own, not after beginning in the Spirit and then vainly attempting to be made perfect in the flesh (Galatians 3:1-3).
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under GRACE.” Romans 6:14
There’s no cross and no grace (divine enablement) in the message of the sinless perfectionists and therefore their message is false. Heretical.
It’s like they seek and are boasting about their own obedience and their own self-willed sinless perfection. Nonsense. Laughable.
Overcoming must be done in and through Christ – in a real, abiding relationship with Him which sinless perfectionist frauds never mention.
Recognizing our own need to be humble, contrite, broken, and fully dependent on the LORD is what we learn in Scripture, not hiding behind sinless perfectionism but rather being authentic, honest, and realizing that without JESUS and being one with Him in an abiding relationship, we can do nothing to please God (John 15:5).
“For without me ye can do nothing.” John 15:5
It’s better to cease pretending in my opinion, in light of the whole counsel of Scripture. I am not a good person, neither are you. “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10). Admit it. The sooner we become HONEST with that which is more than obvious, announcing freely and transparently – that there is “NOOOO good thing” in us except CHRIST, the sooner God will begin a new, deeper work in us! (See Romans 7:18, 24.) The Cross!
We are all very imperfect and in present and perpetual need of the LORD’s saving grace which requires a born again and abiding relationship with Christ.
Those who truly follow Christ are to be fully dependent upon Him, not self, or self’s supposed perfect obedience – which is a farce. See Posture of Dependency
Lest someone should erroneously believe there is any justification for any sin, let me say this: Jesus is coming back for “a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27), And “By mercy and truth iniquity is purged.”
“By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” Proverbs 16:6
This is how we can observe the ministry of Jesus and His apostles. The only people they were harsh with were the rich and the religious. They were not harsh with people who sinned and were convicted and contrite, humbled before God, seeking His mercy, repentant. The woman taken in adultery is one such example…..
Stone Casting Qualifications
Jesus never called the woman taken in adultery (John 8) or the woman who had had five husbands and was now living with another man, a whore (John 4). Jesus was not harsh with either of them. What does this say for some of these self-righteous, hate-mongering, arrogant, pharisaical, enraged, embattled, need-to-get-saved street preachers so prevalent today who openly call scantily clad women whores instead of winning them as Jesus did? Perhaps it’s the lust in their own hearts driving them? (See Romans 2:1-3.) We never see Christ needlessly provoking, condemning, screaming at, or yelling at lost sinners. WHERE did Jesus or any of His apostles possess such a hate-filled attitude other than when Jesus rebuked them in their younger years for seeking to call down fire from Heaven? Christ rebuked them with “Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of” (Luke 9:54-55).
DID Cain murder his brother Abel because of Abel’s sins or his own?
“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.” 1 John 3:12
Those who slander others do so because of the wickedness that exists in their own hearts.
No Sin to Deal with?
1 John 1:8-10 should be kept in mind…. synthesized, right? Yes…… 1 Corinthians 2:13
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:8-10
If we are saved by our supposed obedience, we all fall short, right? Should we not rather trust in the perfect obedience of CHRIST? Memorize Romans 4:4-5. This is in no way to excuse any sin, period (Romans 6:1-2).
“Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:4-5
WHO earned our salvation? Jesus.
“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Ecclesiastes 7:20
FROM A SINLESS PERFECTIONIST:
REPLY:
May God find us with Christ’s righteousness, not our own …. The righteousness Jesus Christ accomplished at the cross is the only righteousness God honors, all else is “as filthy rags.”
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
What righteousness does God see us in right now? Is it our own, or Christ’s?
“And be found IN HIM, NOT HAVING MINE OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Philippians 3:9
Without Christ’s present saving mercy, this disciple is absolutely hopeless, sinful, and doomed. I will trust Christ’s righteousness and not my own!
“Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?” Proverbs 20:9
None is righteous by himself, on his own merit and that what sinless perfectionism teaches….. you are being fed by wolves like Finney and Desario…. you didn’t get this in the Bible, by organic personal study… that’s why there’s an imbalance…..
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Apostasy
Jesus Answered Questions with Questions [podcast]

“AVOID FOOLISH QUESTIONS”
Could it be that one way to “avoid foolish questions” is to ask questions when questioned?
“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition REJECT; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” Titus 3:9-11
One of the best ways to “avoid foolish questions” is to answer them with questions. Read that again.
All questions that come to us are not evil and yet, as we see with Jesus’ religious enemies, some questions do come from evil hearts with ungodly motives.
“For we are not as many, which corrupt (twist, adulterate) the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 2:17
Jesus used the art of asking questions and so should you. This will revolutionize the way you interact with others, if done correctly. And, this should never be used from a heart that is not pure in the eyes of God. The disciple must beware of the evil that lurks within his own heart (Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18, 24, etc.).
“Asking questions was central to Jesus’ life and teachings.”
Jesus used this method of answering questions with questions in order to shift the burden of proof, expose the motives of his critics, and force his listeners to think deeply.
One commentator notes:
“How many times did Jesus ask questions?
In the Gospels Jesus asks many more questions than he answers. To be precise, Jesus asks 307 questions. He is asked 183 of which he only answers three. Asking questions was central to Jesus‘ life and teachings.”
The Big Question is … What’s behind the question?
WHERE is the questioner seeking to lead this conversation?
We should pray for discernment to know whether there is evil intent or the noble desire for answers behind the questions asked of us.
Questioners with evil hearts ask questions in order to get themselves off the hook or deny what the Bible plainly states. This some do to distance themselves from the conviction of conscience the truth is causing them. And if you buy the package, if you take the bait, they will suck you in and devour you.
Beware of the enemy’s tactics.
“Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices (schemes, tactics).” 2 Corinthians 2:11
“Jesus frequently asked the Pharisees questions. He challenged them. Most of the time He answered questions with questions! He called them out! Which angered them greatly. Jesus was skilled in the art of asking questions! I could learn much from a study of questions Jesus asked.” Karen Cochran
ALWAYS GIVE GOD’S ANSWER AND NO OTHER (1 Peter 3:15): Beware that when God’s Word is spoken, those who love darkness rather than light, those who are unrepentant will divert from the Word by asking you questions off of the WORD itself in order to divert the conviction from their unrepentant hearts (John 3:19-21). STAY with the Word – whether they like it or not (Isaiah 55:11). You owe no man an answer other than to give them what God says – what the LORD stated in His unchanging Word (Mark 13:31). Jesus tells us that such men as will not hear His Word, are “NOT of God.” And, that if they were “OF GOD” they’d be humbly, astutely looking for and hearing HIS Word (John 8:47). Memorizing the words of Jesus recorded in John 8:47 will put your discernment miles ahead. I underlined the key words:
“He that is OF GOD heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are NOT OF GOD.” John 8:47
When you give rebels the answer of GOD from HIS WORD, they will attack you – the mere messenger. They are not there to learn. They’ve made up their minds and are sticking with their rebellion. Always remember, their issue is with the LORD and not with you.
You see, unrepentant men do not like the answer God gives to their questions. They are looking only to justify sin, not repent and confess it as the LORD requires. So their questions are aimed at finding a way to justify their sin – to justify their refusal to truly repent, lay down their lives in this fleeting world, and follow Jesus for real. That’s the crux of the matter.
Isn’t that exactly what the pharisees (false teachers/religionists) did to Jesus?
“Let GOD be true and EVERY man a liar.” Romans 3:4
“Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” Psalms 119:105
Give God’s answer and no other. You owe no one an answer to anything else, except what God says about it. Refuse to allow rebels to lead you around by the nose with their deflections and questions.
“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” 1 Peter 3:15
JESUS ANSWERS QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS
Getting a taste of how Jesus dealt with evil hearted religious folks is going to greatly develop your ability to navigate the hate-filled attacks against Christ and you by truth-haters. This will help you as you earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints in the original Gospel recorded on the pages of Holy Scripture (Jude 3-4).
Jesus questioned His questioners and so should you! You serve the LORD Jesus and are not obligated to answer every question that comes your way. Sometimes, you have to stay in control in these situations. I say this specifically referring to conversations you will have with rebels. They have nothing good in their hearts and in many cases, have no heart for the truth, just like the religious frauds of Christ’s day.
Personally, I’ve seldom seen so much evil as when I refuse to answer questions from those who seek to misdirect the conversation away from the Word of God. Often detractors use mere human reasoning, or anything to manipulate and twist and get the emphasis off of what the Word itself clearly states (Mark 7:6-9). This is a tactic they use in order to promulgate their false belief, justifies their sin, and that contradicts Holy Scripture. Such was the case in this recent attack and conversation – Preacher Viciously Attacked for Speaking the Truth! [podcast]
Jesus is THE BOSS and He’s Your Boss! Follow Your Boss. Follow the Example of Your Boss! We learn from our Boss by beholding what He did. And, our Boss, the KING of all kings, asked questions to questioners.
Our Lord was skilled at asking precise questions that drove to the heart of a situation, centering everything on HIS kingdom and never acquiescing to the sinful whims and manipulations of unrepentant men.
Some of Christ’s most profound questions came as a response to those who were questioning Jesus. The following is a list of some of the questions Jesus used in questioning His questioners. This is not an exhaustive list of every question Jesus ever asked and is on record in the Bible. In order to help the reader, I’ve underlined and hi-lighted the words which indicate questions for the reader to capture the essence of how our LORD answered questions with questions. I’ve included also the questions Jesus asked His own disciples. Some of these questions are noble and most (from His enemies) are hostile. As you will see, those questions from Christ’s enemies are obviously inherently evil. I’ve highlighted with yellow where the LORD specifically cites them for such, calling to the reader’s attention the heart motives of those asking the questions. Jesus interrupted their attempted deflections, cover-ups. He called them out on it. Here’s the interaction:
- Matthew 9:14-15 – 14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not? 15 And Jesus said unto them (a question), Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
- Matthew 15:1-3 – 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
- Matthew 15:33-34 33 – 33 And his disciples say unto him, Whence should we have so much bread in the wilderness, as to fill so great a multitude? 34 And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes.
- Matthew 17:24-26 – 24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
- Matthew 21:16 – And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
- Matthew 26:6-10 – 6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. 8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
- Mark 2:5-11 – 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
- Mark 4:10,13 – 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. .. 13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
- Mark 4:38,40 – And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? … 40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?
- Mark 7:17-18 – 17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also?Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
- Mark 10:2-3 – And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
- Notice in this exchange below how Jesus is, as always, in charge, in control and therefore answers the questions of these hypocrites with questions and puts them to work – because He knew the hypocrisy of their hearts and what was behind their foolish questions.
Mark 12:14-17 – And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny (Jesus puts them to work), that I may see it. 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s. 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.
- By Jesus telling these men that they did err, were in error, because they didn’t know the “scriptures, neither the power of God” which comes from proper relationship with Him, He was in part directing them to get into the Word where the answers are found. Mark 12:18, 20-24 – Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, … 20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. 21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. 22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. 23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
- Luke 2:48-49 – And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist (knew) ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?
- Luke 6:1-3 – And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. 2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? 3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him; 4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?
- Luke 10:25-26 – And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
- Luke 10:29,36 – But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? … 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
- Luke 12:41-43 – Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
- Luke 18:18-19 – And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
- As Jesus “taught the people … and preached the gospel”…. wicked religionists hurled questions with evil intent, questioning Christ’s authority. As His custom was, Jesus answered them with a question.
Luke 20:1-4 – And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, 2 And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority? 3 And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: 4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
- John 8:3-10 – And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. (notice Jesus’ response to their question here – He didn’t answer it verbally but with this action) But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?“
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