Beware of the Denial of Christ’s Exclusivity and Atonement and the No-Sinful-Nature Heresy

These Dialogues should help clear up the misconceptions and deceptions of those who have been beguiled into this evil theology which denies Christ’s uniqueness, atonement, and what God has said about fallen mankind.

Lots of gullible dupes buying this package. Beware! Charles Finney’s falsehoods are being regurgitated. This system of falsehood is on the rise. Due to these heresies showing their ugly head as of the last few years, we have addressed this extensively. Here’s a new post with an intriguing dialogue that is sure to clue you in to the way these people have believed and been deceived. Where is your Christology friends? – Please share this page to help others.

SELF-RIGHTEOUS DEVILS will be in hell first according the Christ! (Matthew 21:31) There are lots of novices acting like they have the answers because they learned their heresies from now-in-hell wolves like Mike Desario and Charles Finney. Beware. These are the vilest of devils.

YES God requires genuine faith which always produces good works and yet, GOD ALONE SAVES US – not our own good works!!!! Rightly divide! Synthesize the whole truth! (2 Timothy 2:15)

Some deny that there is a flesh nature to be crucified. Utter heresy.

Saints, we cannot possibly begin to appreciate this “so great salvation” that is Christ until we understand how lost, helpless, and alienated we were in our sin (Ephesians 2:1-10; Hebrews 2:3). We must study to understand the biblical doctrine of inherent sin, fallen mankind, and the holiness of God …. in order to begin to be able to appreciate the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.

Sin sure is a living entity called the “old man” which is ever with us and must be daily crucified – put to death (Romans 6; Colossians 3:9-10). If there were nothing to “put off” why would the LORD have told us to do so so often?

Fallen man’s utter depravity and need for the saving mercy of Jesus Christ!

How can we possibly begin to understand and appreciate why Jesus came to the earth to die if we still see ourselves as anything except “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” before a holy God? (Isaiah 6:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:18; Revelation 4:8)

Mankind’s fallen state:

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9

The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.

What do we truly deserve in and of ourselves, being that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags”? (Isaiah 64:6)

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6

“O wretched man that I AM” sounds like he’s presently dealing with the “old man” which must be perpetually crucified with Christ in this life – which is a test of who we truly love, self or the Savior (Romans 7:18, 24). This discourse in chapter 7 is leading to the following ultimate solution for sin….

“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:19-21 

Acknowledging that the Bible says there’s a war between the new creature and the tendency to sin in no way means we are captive to it. NO! We have been given complete victory over it through Christ and doing what He told us to do “daily” – take up the cross and follow Him (Luke 9:23-24; Romans 6; 1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4-5, etc.).

Because they don’t view the old man as a sinful nature, those who teach this “no sin nature heresy” don’t see the need to crucify it as Scripture commands repeatedly.

“By nature through the fall of Adam, are we the children of wrath, heirs of the vengeance of God by birth, yea, and from our conception. And we have fellowship with the damned devils, under the power of darkness and rule of Satan, while we are yet in our mother’s wombs; and though we shew not forth the fruits of sin [as soon as we are born] yet are we full of the natural poison, whereof all sinful deeds spring, and cannot but sin outwards, (be we never so young,) [as soon as we be able to work,] if occasion be given: for our nature is to do sin, as is the nature of a serpent to sting… By grace (that is to say, by favour) we are plucked out of Adam, the ground of all evil, and grafted in Christ, the root of all goodness.” William Tyndale, A Pathway into the Holy Scripture

MESSAGE RECEIVED:

“I don’t claim to know every secret of God or of human nature and I could even be wrong about some things. But I know this. I will never say that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). For He was made in every way like us (Heb 2:17) Tempted in all points like us (Heb 4:15) and yet without sin.”

REPLY:

Yes but you are doing the same thing (equivalent) by denying His atonement … which is the only atonement. “Atonement” is huge with God and appears 81 times in Scripture. The OT references were pointing to Christ who was to come – “And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT.” Romans 5:11

MESSAGE RECEIVED:

“So we have the same flesh (sarx) as He had. I think we create our own Old Man that needs to be put off.”

REPLY:

Jesus Christ is unique in all of history. He had no earthly father which is the way contamination of sin is transferred via the blood. Study the significance of the phrase “only begotten Son” and you will begin seeing the uniqueness of Christ. He was all God and all man – sinless due to His Father and exercising His will to please Him alone. We though have earthly, sinful fathers whereby death passed upon us (Romans 5). Read Romans 5. You are missing some vital things in your body of truth.

Jesus was tempted and had a personal will (Luke 22:42) but He was more than just a man and this is what the Bible calls “the mystery of godliness.” Read 1 Tim. 3:16 and 6:15-16 closely.

You “think”????? Don’t you have a Bible? “Let God be true and EVERY man a liar,” beginning with yourself. Your theology is a concoction at this point – a mixed bag of confusion.

MESSAGE RECEIVED:

“On the other hand I can point out sin to the lost and put the blame solely on the sinner and persuade men knowing the fear of God myself.”

REPLY:

You have sinned and so have I. We must beware of self-righteousness which was the sin of the hell bound Pharisees. This no-sin-nature heresy seems to foster self-righteousness and pride in self… Jesus says that the harlots will be in Heaven before the self-righteous (Matthew 21:31). What I mean by “sin nature” is the potential, inclination, and temptation to sin.

MESSAGE RECEIVED:

“I’m not emailing you to support Finney. I’m emailing you because I work with the woman who is Lutheran and I know that she is deceived. I gave her a gospel tract that talked about how Jesus saves FROM sin, not IN sin. And one of her ‘excuses’ was that she had a sinful nature. In other words she defined “sinful nature” as a permanent thing that was inescapable. You define the term as escapable.

I become “frustrated” at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.

I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to “sinful nature” and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.

In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Grudem, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are “coming from.”

As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.

Again I call anyone a brother who worships Christ in spirit and truth.

I just wanted to poke a bit and see what you thought. Thank you for your videos on YouTube and I appreciate your time.

REPLY:

God saves first – He regenerates. Then sin is forgiven and He grants His power to overcome. Salvation is not only about sin but about salvaging the relationship between Himself and mankind. The woman taken in adultery was first and foremost forgiven by Christ and THEN and only THEN told to “go and sin no more.” (John 8) You have learned from deceived men to reduce Christ’s salvation to only overcoming sin which has taken the worship focus away from Him (Col. 2:18-19). The spirit of antichrist is behind this. God is not interested in you feigning to be overcoming sin if you are not engaging in an abiding cross relationship with Him (John 15). Salvation is about restored relationship and fellowship with the Father and Son and not only about the removal of sin although that is essential to the reconciliation of that vital relationship (Col. 1:12-14).

You said: “she defined ‘sinful nature’ as a permanent thing that was inescapable.” You define the term as escapable.” I define it as being “present” and essential to crucify via that “daily” cross Jesus commanded (Lk. 9:23-24). But you are denying it against the clear teaching of Scripture. Paul the apostle wrote: “I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL ISSSSS PRESENT WITH ME.” (Romans 7:21) “Is” here makes it plain that after Paul’s conversion, sin was still “present” with him and had to be “put under” or mortified (Rom. 6:-8; 1 Cor. 9:27).

I agree that Calvinistic theology is completely false and yet, we cannot base truth on what others are falsely teaching. Truth is God’s Word (John 17:17) and we must honestly and objectively engage in “rightly dividing” it by thorough “study” of it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are saying is clearly contradicting known truth. The sinful nature is only escapable at death. As long as we are in the body, we shall be tempted to conform to that evil nature and given the opportunity to put it off (“put off the old man” and to “put on the new man.”) (Ephesians 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10) Listen closely to Paul here: – “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (including mortifying the sinful nature/flesh-v13) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain (under the curse caused by man’s sin) together until now. 23 And not only they (the lost), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Romans 8:18-23

This passage above further makes it crystal clear that we, “which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,” are groaning and travailing under sin’s gravity, “waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God” when we die or Christ returns. It’s then when “4 God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.” (Revelation 21:4-5)

Romans 8:21 says that “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption” and in the context of this passage, that’s clearly in eternity, not now.

Here’s your problem – you are basing your doctrine on 1) what you’ve heard from other mere men, and 2) what others are saying … instead of going only by the whole counsel of Scripture. You state: “I become  ‘frustrated’ at times when I hear nominal Christians with an attitude that they can’t escape a nature they were born with or that they are saved no matter what they do. I’m frustrated out of love for their souls and not to prove some selfish doctrine. I hope you can forgive me if I have made you stumble in any way.”  First off, the LORD has blessed me to minister to individuals for 30 years now daily and I hear the same thing. No, I am not moved by this false system of theology and dealing with what people we minister to say (making excuses). The answer is not to deny what God’s Word clearly says is “present” with us (Romans 7:21), but rather to be instructed by the LORD and His holy apostles to “keep under” and to “crucify” and to “mortify the deeds of the body.” That’s God’s answer – not denying that evil is still present with us.

You said: “I was hoping to get some insight into someone who held to “sinful nature” and yet believed in crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is correct actually – we have an evil nature and it must be daily mortified.

It is my opinion that you are being routed by the enemy by even giving place to and wasting time studying any person after Christ and His apostles. Let’s admit that we don’t even know God’s Word nearly as we should and could and so are wasting His precious time in our lives He gave us looking at what mere men said, taught, and believed. You said: “In terms of my own beliefs I don’t totally subscribe to any theologian, whether it be Finney, Augustine, Edwards, Gruden, Luther, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc. I feel it is important to study entire church history because it helps me understand where people are ‘coming from.’” ALL you need is God’s Word and so reading, studying, and memorizing it bring ALL the answers (Ps. 119:42; 2 Timothy 2:15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11; 2 Pet. 1:3-4, 19-21, etc.).

Again, this is dangerous: “As far as my own beliefs I believe Christ has freed me from the bondage that I sold myself into. It’s nothing more or less than that.” If you have truly repented and put your faith in Christ (Acts 20:21), He regenerated you, made you a new creature in Christ, and gave you His “divine nature” (John 3:3, 7; Titus 3:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; 2 Peter 1:3-4).

You seem humble and that’s a good place for us to be and to remain… teachable (Prov. 1:5; 6:23; 15:32, etc.). He has much for us to learn.

MESSAGE RECEIVED:

“One additional thought. I’m not sure how you arrived at the fact I subscribe to Charles Finney. I specifically said when we repent God puts us “In Christ” (kind of like being put into Noah’s Ark) and thus are sanctified through Christ and his faith and righteousness. Someone isn’t a Finneyist because they deny sinful nature. I see that someone is a Finneyist if they subscribe to his systematic theology, moral government etc.

I just read in the bible that David said “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” and that babies in the womb know neither good nor evil. And I see that people “go astray”, meaning that they leave of their own volition. And I believe that God forgives small children if they sin. 1 John2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.

And if your point of calling out Finney is to correct error of sanctification by works then I support you in that cause.”

REPLY:

You have bought into and are overreacting to the error of others (mainly Calvinists) and thereby make an equally damaging, false error yourself and are openly denying Christ the only Redeemer.

Where did you get this teaching? It came from man and not God. You didn’t learn this from just and only reading Scripture. I know you say you just read the Bible but I am certain you have arrived at this via some man or mere men. You are forcing Scripture to say what you have concluded, holding to your tradition and setting God’s Word aside (Mark 7:6-9). You are allowing your tradition to trump Scripture.

What does “fearfully and wonderfully made” really mean? Does that cancel the meaning and revealed divine truth of other Scriptures? No. After God created man He said it was “good” and yet that was BEFORE man fell. After man fell He says we are “corrupt,” and “desperately wicked,” and have sinned against Him and are shown to be (concluded) guilty (Romans 3:19; 11:32). Without Christ’s “regeneration” (“born again”) we are “dead in trespasses and sins” and by “NATURE” the children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:2-7).

Paul used the phrase “MYSTERY of iniquity” and so perhaps there is a mystery. Romans 7 may lend to that thought also. There IS a struggle within which seems to indicate two, not one nature – one that must be crucified and dominated by the power of the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17-18; Romans 8:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Paul didn’t say “O wretched man that I WAS” but rather “O wretched man that I AM.” (Romans 7:24) This seems to further demonstrate that he still had an evil nature to overcome – to mortify daily. That’s the whole purpose of the daily cross – so that the LORD will increase and we decrease (John 3:3o). It seems clear from Scripture that we should cease to deny the sin nature and simply obey God’s Word by crucifying it daily (Luke 9:23-24). We as His children have a personal will as even Jesus did and must choose His will over ours – “not MY will but thine be done.” (Luke 22:42) Jesus had a will and we have a will – which we all choose to exercise as we choose in obeying or disobeying God.

Are you going to deny the war Paul spoke of? “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Galatians 5:17-18

“The truth is that while Christ dwells in the believer’s new nature, He has strong competition from the believer’s old nature. The warfare between the old and the new goes on continually in most believers.” AW Tozer

To overlook the reality of this war within is to reveal our limited view of the full counsel of Scripture or refusal to acknowledge it.  I want to encourage you to take a step back prayerfully to seek the LORD’s face – asking Him that your heart would be established with His grace and not with meats (Hebrews 13:9; Ezekiel 36:24-26).

Now I am wondering if you are truly saved and I say that with all carefulness and concern. To quote you: “Also I don’t subscribe to any atonement theory whatsoever. Subscribing to an atonement theory only divides the brethren. It’s a source of division only. I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.”

Atonement is a “theory”????? Forget dividing the brethren – you are denying Christ wholesale and calling God a liar. You are able to save yourself and atone for yourself? So, God sent His only begotten Son in vain? There was no need for at-one-ment? This is exactly what Finney taught and is antichrist – it exes out Christ, says that “Christ is dead in vain.” (Galatians 2:21) It says that man can make his own way to God and that overcoming sin is the pinnacle of being right with God instead of Christ being the only Mediator between God and man. The Bible teaches us that salvation is in a Person – Jesus Christ – and not in what we can do to rid ourselves of sin. Such a notion replaces Christ with self (definition of antichrist) and makes us Luciferic. This is a deadly and damnable heresy – “even denying the Lord that bought them.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)

You said: “I do believe Christ frees from the captivity of sin, and I know that’s no theory. I’ve felt it personally in my life.” – So, what came first: 1) freedom from sin or 2) atonement and regeneration? Making you one with Him through regeneration/being born again and given a new nature – made a new creature in Christ? In your mind salvation is simply being freed “from the captivity of sin” and not in knowing and being known of God (John 15:14; 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Philippians 3:10). This is Gnosticism where personally knowing the LORD is subtly denied and replaced with mere head knowledge. You are reducing “salvation” to something far less than God reveals it to be by denying Christ right out of the picture which is the workings of “that spirit of antichrist” and “the spirit of error.” (1 John 4:1-6)

It is my opinion that God is giving you the opportunity through this conversation to come to Him in honesty and sincere humility, returning to Him in repentance.

God sent His only begotten Son to be the only (exclusive) offering for fallen mankind’s sin to bring His atonement for mankind’s sin (Isaiah 53). The LORD Jesus Christ was the prophesied, exclusive Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. (Matthew 1:21; John 1:29)  He alone made atonement and to teach that we have no sin to be atoned for is to deny Christ openly. Jesus alone “taste(d) death for every man.” (Hebrews 2:9) Denying or feigning to overcome sin (a farce) without Jesus’ atonement and regeneration is brazen denial of the whole plan of God in sending His only begotten Son. This makes one lost and antichrist.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) through faith in his blood (not faith in ourselves), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:23-28

God alone justifies and He made that exclusively through Christ Jesus, the only “propitiation” or atoning sacrifice for our sins. This is exactly what He depicted in Leviticus 16-17 with the scapegoat. He alone fulfilled this picture when He came as “THE Lamb of God” to take “away the SIN (not just the sins) of the world.” (John 1:29) The singular use of “sin” here is telling.

If we are not born with a sinful nature, WHY does God regenerate us – make us born again, new creatures in Christ? Why does He change our nature? (2 Corinthians 5:17-18) Are we not “partakers of the divine nature”? (2 Peter 1:3-4)

todd

No Inherent Sin Nature? | Stop Sinning? Really? | Sin: Man’s Core Problem | The Idiocy of Calvinism | Is Romans 7 Before or After Paul’s Salvation?

Notes:

as you know we continue to war against this finney system of lies that denies Christ’s atonement and what He instructed us to do in taking up the cross and deny self

No propensity toward sin?

Yes there is an evil in us, a potential, an inclination toward evil that must be crucified …. To say or to insinuate that there is nothing to be denied or crucified daily, always, perpetually, we are saying that Christ and His apostles are fools ….. because they said that such were essential (Lk. 9:23-24; John 12:23-25; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; Col. 3:3; Rom. 6, etc. ….. Seems to me that sin had an horrible effect on human nature …. Rom. 5:18-19. ….When we “were dead in trespasses and sins,” we “were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:1-3) See also Romans 7.

The answer is not to deny the sinful tendencies but rather to obey Christ by crucifying that nature…..

God doesn’t expect you to sin. He commands and expects you to live holy and gives you totally mastery over all temptation to sin through the power of His Spirit and the crucified life (Romans 6:14; 8:12-14, etc.).

There’s no excuse for sinning. If a Christian sins it is always that Christians fault, never God’s fault (James 1:13-15).

1 John 2:1-2

Like the heretic they follow, they teach that it’s your own “natural ability” that you overcome and not by the power and saving grace of the LORD Jesus Christ.  Gal 3:3

Are there sinful tendencies in fallen man? Yes.

Does this mean he is captive to those sinful bents after regeneration? No. In fact, redeemed men have been given complete grace and divine power over all sin (Romans 6; 8:12-14, etc.).

Are sinful men captive to sin before regeneration? Yes. Unregenerate man has no saving grace to overcome sin or to “stop sinning” as some foolishly assert. Sinners “by nature” serve their sinful dictates and the enemy of souls (Ephesians 2:1-3).

Unregenerate man cannot “stop sinning” until he personally meets the only One who came and died to redeem and regenerate him (Galatians 2:20-21; Titus 3:2-7, etc.).

The ability to conquer all sin is the stated will of God and yet that divine ability (Grace = divine ability) does not enter the saved person until he is first saved. So how can someone “stop all sinning” before being saved by grace? Impossible. And, that is unmitigated idolatry, antichrist – putting self before, in place of Christ who alone is Savior and LORD. Repentance is first and foremost turning TO GOD and not turning from sin. If you get these out of order, you are a heretic.

***These people are under the spirit of antichrist. They are touting their own “natural ability” to make the right decisions while denying the need for Christ’s regeneration and present saving, enabling grace (divine influence on their hearts and empowerment in their lives). They deny Christ in that they believe they overcome by their own personal will alone and not by the power and grace of Jesus Christ. John 1:12-13

Hosea 4:6; Colossians 2:18-19

One writer notes:

“The recognition of the sin nature is exactly why must take up the daily cross.  The branch cut away from the wild olive tree and grafted into the new tree still has a residue of the old sap and bark.”

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